Siblings Sam and Anna Hallos planning their Yorkshire tenancy succession with the support of their parents

For siblings Anna and Sam Hallos, the future succession of their tenanted upland beef and sheep farm in West Yorkshire has been an ‘open and honest’ conversation around the farmhouse kitchen table for many years now. They have both been ‘heavily involved’ in the business from a young age, but now older, at 27 and 24 years old, Sam and Anna have started making decisions, which they both said is helping to shape their future on the farm. While both Anna and Sam are relishing the opportunity to support the farm business in making key decisions, they share a strong admiration for what their parents have done since taking on the farm tenancy, and the changes they have made to ensure their children can now be employed on the farm.

Transcript

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You're listening to the Farmers Guardian podcast.Hello and welcome back to the Farmers Guardian podcast. My name is Rachael Brown and for this week's episode I visited brother and sister Salmon Anna Hulse on their upland beef and sheep farm in beautiful Ripon in West Yorkshire, to find out about their succession planning and how they are making decisions now to help shape their future on their family Tennant Farm. Why is it important to have a good succession plan? Yeah, I think it's always obviously important so you know where the business is going to go in the future. So obviously it's a plan. Plan ahead, plan what you want to achieve and what you want to do after take, you know, from our parents and just seeing what works and want to achieve with the farm and stuff. How about you, Hannah? Yeah, I think spot some says is pretty spot on, but I think it's important to whilst you're putting in tools that have your parents there to assist you, to support you through so that when you do think of, you know, you've probably done quite a few of the battles, but the involved so that when you use the help, it's not a case of oh my God, what we actually doing?

But you've sort of got used. Yeah. So all the way isn't all that you've always dealt with before. And we just say preparation is key. Kind of starting that process early. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah yeah yeah. So you guys how how early did you start it. When did you start having those initial conversations around succession? Well, we've always I consider myself to be heavily involved with the business and we've been brought up with it.

So it's sort of a thing that we've all dealt with. Yeah. We've always taught all four of us always talked about what the future holds for us, but I think as we've got older we've got more involved in making actual decisions. And I think it's great that we've been able to do that, to make change that we want to do for our future. So and in terms of kind of a longer I hate using the word journey, but succession planning, where are you at the moment? Well, obviously we're sort of like coming through now. The office of the boss is still without approval, but the website, I'm getting into it. And so taking more control, taking a bit more work on I would between as well.

Yeah, yeah, a bit more. There's more pressure on our decision and. Yeah. And the fact of it, they're asking us about what are we doing next. Yeah. And the case of it is our future now. Yeah, we thought so. So we can still look around, you know, look to start out as well. And say what? Where are we going?

What are we doing to. What do you think is is the right thing to do? Like leaning. Yeah. Yeah. Experience and you know afterwards. So yeah as siblings how do you kind of navigate that dynamic. Well we've been very look at some of the chapters because as you so I very I would go in my chat to speak to.

Yes I sit around some sort of sociable the me yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm a bit of an. Yeah because I don't think I would be in your car. I. Yeah. So I say with machine in me do I, do I, it means that, you know, I do socialize with people. I don't speak to people and deal with on the farm.

So that's kind of the contracting side. Yeah. Yeah. So that's our cultural contacts inside of it. Yeah. Which is slowly building up. It's no means a huge business at the moment, but for one day it could be. But that's also deal with people. Well they want all the farmers want. Yeah. So I guess it's a kind of a recognition between the two of what you can bring to the farm business and identifying your kind of strengths and weaknesses.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So as an honest conversation, who what would you say your weaknesses are and how do you kind of weaken the tractor. And yeah, we see we all have faults. Yeah that the biggest are the sheep. No I mean I'm not a fan of sheep unless you went in the wrong field. You know, the grass for winter. But no, we yeah we do, we do have this. We. But I think we're pretty happy to challenge ourselves in them. We this is in the facts will turn around to me and go, oh, no, I need you to do that. Yeah. So I will go do it. And yeah, get have a bit of a on but I'll do it.

And I'll say to him, all I need, you say I couldn't do this. I mean, I'll go. Yeah. All right. But yeah but it's fine once you doing it. Yeah I think that's the biggest thing. But we do I think we do push each other. Yeah. You know, we if we don't really follow up I think it's interesting.

And when you said in terms of having more kind of ownership of your decisions on the farm. Yeah, that's kind of been a transition over the years. Yeah. It's way, you know, your mum and dad would have kind of been in control and making the big decisions slowly. Would you say that's fine. Now that's transitioning away to you guys now.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's become less of mom and dad's saying this is what we'll do in to a case of the five of you sit down and go, right, what do you want to do next? And then they'll move on. What do you want to happen next? And then we talk about right. What was the balance here. And then we'll pick the key factors and what we need to do next to move forward.

And it's not just two people sit in it's fall. And then slowly a whole other move to me and some of them on the other good and sort of supporting us by still being there, but not in the actual decision. Okay. But oh, so there's no meetings where they say, yeah, do what you want. No no no, no.

But it's good to be able to go back to we'll go. Yeah that's the right thing to do. Well you know it's that balance isn't it. Yeah. The process because you don't want to be the opposite end where you know, you guys are working on the farm and that and making the decision. Yeah. So at the time yeah.

Because what I yeah the boys and I think that's a really good point in terms of now it's kind of moving into your future where we are taking pride in what we're doing now. Yeah. Yeah. And but you know my mum about is still young. Yeah. Young enough to still farm and do it and do it. Yeah. So you know you've also got to go.

You can't just take it all now. Yeah. Yeah. But it feels kind of like a family. Yeah. Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. It has to be. Yeah. So where do you see kind of the future direction of this farm. What's kind of your future vision on the future? Be interesting to see if you agree. Well, I've seen I think for us it's not necessarily getting like bigger in.

It's the fact of using what we have as a whole. And then making everything more productive, the quality being so much better. And then, like the diversification of other ideas that we may have in the future, like we're very open to going down that road of if that is better than having more cows, then we're very open to that in the fact of having the nucleus of cattle, sheep, but smaller and obviously some doing is contracting.

I think that is well, it has taken off as a contraction. It's like a great income to the farm. Yeah. And it's good for some to have his part. And the fact of he's going out there and doing what he's doing. And I think that will grow and we will need more people for that. Just like we'll probably need more people for the livestock in the future as well.

So yeah, it's not a case of getting bigger and bigger and bigger. It's just using what we've got to make as productive. But the quality is still there. So that's the way I see it. And I think in this current climate that having that mindset is quite important. Yeah. That kind of ability to adapt. Yeah. And then within the system.

Yeah sure. Yeah. Yeah. Again I agree with mainly what others said. But it is not all about numbers or getting into a huge business. It's about making it productive, manageable. And obviously when you do start getting people involved, it gets more and more difficult. So the Ty agreed, people can keep it in the better in my opinion.

So and again, yeah, as far as the contract is concerned it's fantastic. We keep getting busier. But again it's all in balance. There's also a huge farm here that we, we need to manage correctly. Yeah. And it's all about a balancing act between not one outweighing the other. Yeah. You know, everything needs to work together. So then that's what we feel it's at the moment.
And obviously this this is a tenanted farm. Yeah. And at the core of that is obviously a relationship a sustainable relationship with your landlord. Kind of navigating through that. And there are additional pressures obviously being a tenant farmer. Yeah. You know ultimately you have that rent to pay. Yeah. And so I see things. How do you manage that?


It's like I said about the relationship wise. It's really, really important to keep that relationship. Keep your landlord in the loop of what you are doing. Keep them confident in the fact of me. And some do want this and we want to continue to invest in this because this is our home we've always known as our home, and we want to continue it to be our home.Although it is a rented farm, we don't see it as that, but not love it. It's a problem. But anyway. But it is our home is is a livelihood. Yeah. And we do, you know, plan on stay there forever. Yeah, yeah. So that is why we, we do need to work with the mom and dad always have done.

Yeah. And we will continue to do so. And have you expressed I guess people listening to this, how do you kind of initiate those conversations to make it known to, to those people that you want. Yeah. Future here. Yeah. Yeah I suppose we get we're coming into the businesses. It's so new. We have been here a while but taking more control of the business.

It's sort of a new in. Yeah. So we do involve of some. Yeah. Let them like sit around the table with your actual. Yeah. Like introduce themselves and say you know, well I'm doing this and then some say what he's doing and it's just little conversations like it doesn't have to be a massive conversation. We are planning to meet.

Yeah. And showing them that we are invested and ingested. Yeah. That's really interesting in terms of, you know, speaker sponsored anything running a farm. And obviously you're kind of hopefully in the future taking over from your parents and you've seen them change this farm. Yeah, it's changed in many forms. It was a dairy farm. Yeah. So, you know, that's a responsibility on your shoulders.

How do you manage that and how do you kind of find that balance between farm life and, you know, having, not a very good sense of humor. Yeah. And the very thing about it is everyone knows this, but it is a lifestyle. Yeah. So you have to make it part of life anyway. Yeah. I think we're fortunate enough to be in the position that we did.

Yeah. And we do sort of take it as we, you know. Yeah. And we could sit here and say, oh yeah, it's also in China. The biggest part of it is coming out at the moment and being the bigger person and go, all right, which is huge. I was it. Yeah, I was at the border. We are very fortunate that we, we do all, get along and yeah, I think we do separate in a way the work and the other things because it is it's difficult when the farm is back where your family home is based on.

Yeah, yeah. To be able to separate the two at the end of the day is quite difficult because you never you never not together. Yeah. You know, because your mum, your dad, his sister. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And yet you go, you have it together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did it together. We do do a lot together. Yeah, yeah.

And I mean, we it's every day you would have thought we'd want to get away, but it's. No, it's because you are off of the property. Oh well how come I let it all go to. Yeah. You know we do. Goes on about what do we do. Well, we have his own bit so yeah, we it's finding a middle ground and we have done that.

Yeah. It's good. And how are you feeling. And kind of the current climate obviously your mum as an office holder is very much kind of in that space of what's going on with kind of political changes and kind of the future direction of farming support. But how are you guys feeling as kind of the next generation, or is it something that you're not worried about, just more focus on the job at hand?

There's always opportunities, isn't that? And I think the business is here is clear and it works at the moment. But we're young enough to diversify if there are any open comment problems. But at this moment in time, you know, we're just sort of got going with it and just keep building it. Yeah, we do sort of like go with the flow in effect, but also like Sam says, we are open to new ideas, to new ideas, to new ways of doing things.

And I think that's really important in the in where the industry is now. The fact of you do have to go on a different path sometimes to keep what's really important to you still the so and that point about new ideas and learning and development going, yeah, you know, learning from other fun. Is that something that you are, you know, to do to try and see what other farms are doing?

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We always. Yeah. What's up with that. Should thank you for and there were a couple talking about what they were up to and it was just so interesting. Yeah. You might not want to do exactly what they're doing, but you can pick little bits out of oh will that be interesting. So you found work here.

Yeah. So yeah, I'd say we're very open to listening to other people and seeing what they're doing. And that's kind of like the next generation, obviously why I work in media. So I see it. But kind of the how the industry is perceived within the general public and kind of that negative reporting thing. But when I speak to next gen farmers and young farmers, I feel so positive about the industry.

So do you feel like you have a role to play in terms of educating public and bringing the public with you? The biggest problem in the agriculture sector will be headlines and people will read headlines and they don't read the small print. Now, I think maybe it's the way we've been brought up is don't believe everything you see straight away, like read into it.

And I think for us it is important that even if you're just in the pub or in the shop and you chatting to someone, it's given your perspective, but then don't drown them with it. Let them have still have their own opinion, but still sort of educated on the fact of it's not what it seems sort of thing is that healthy discussion and debate, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah. And I think that is very healthy that people do that. I mean, we do that here. We do discuss and we do it a bit for the like when there are challenging times in our everyday life. They'd be lying if they didn't say, oh yeah, yeah. And would you say it's like thrashing at around the kitchen table and just discussing it and like, how do you think, what do you have?

You know, we always discuss things always. And we always have different ideas and different things. And then I just feel like we go away, we go outside and I say, my gosh, you may take a picture. This may take a few days to move the idea. Yeah. Instead of doing something, you know, a rational law. So again. Right, we're doing this.

That's it. Yeah. That's what we need to do. We need to go and think about it takes time. You know nothing happens immediately. It doesn't. No, no I think the decision making it sometimes does need that extra time just to come back and think about. Well, yeah. Summed it up. A fair point was that maybe I do need to have my eyes a little bit more to that and accept that, you have to do that within the site, like a nail on bosses.

So yeah. No, it's hard when, you know, if you go and work with somebody, the boss will say what is happening elsewhere. They won't find that there. Yeah. Their decision. Yeah. But when you've got four, four people in the room and you all go, right, well, I think we should do this. Yeah, well, it takes the other three people to mull it over and think about it.

Yeah. And you've got to also be, you know, a compromise. Yeah. You can compromise. You know, if you maybe don't think it's the right thing because Camra will try it. Yeah. And if something happens it's not the case of oh all. So it's just like okay we've learned to deal with it and we'll, we'll move on from it.

Yeah. I don't know to be part of kind of succession planning. And you know, for some families the big challenges is when it comes to talks about money and financial and financial stuff. And it's always kind of yeah, big subject to talk about what really you know, it's a key part. Yeah, absolutely. Being in those bank meeting. Yeah.

Yeah. And understanding financially how the business is run in our system is something that you are involved in. And, you know, that helps you kind of better understand it. And I think that's the key thing in the fact of if if you are wanting to do it properly, succession planning it, you do need to know that and figures and yeah, it might be scary for the parents too, because if it's something them to have done together for so long, even if it is the children to let them in on that, I can see why I could be quite a big thing to do, but it's so important for me and Sam to know that so

that we know what's actually going on, where we are. Yeah, we need to know exactly what things cost, you know, outgoings and stuff like that. So we know how, you know, to deal with the business at certain times of the year or how to actually run the business because it's all right being brought up into the business. It just happening around you.

Yeah. This happens. Mum does a pamphlet that does all the work outside, and then we commit to it and then we need to get it to put it of everything that goes on. Yeah. You know. So and there's a lot to get your head around this also. Yeah. Yeah yeah. There's all sorts of different income streams and all, all sorts of different, you know, outgoings word and all a lot is, is yeah is a huge part of it.

Yeah. Absolutely. Well it is a business and that is what it revolves around. Yeah. It's really a successful business. And for families that are listening to this or reading the piece from your own personal experience, what is your top tips? Be very open and honest. That's a is big on for everyone with either parents, all the children.Again, about the financial thing. Yeah, it's a scary thing, but I think it is one of the things if if you're going to do it together, you do need to know so that the four of you can run the business. I do think on the financial thing, do do you both take an income or how is it. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. That in itself. Yeah. It is an important element and a big part as we're both equal. Yeah. You know, but just because you know unlimited do my work. Yeah. Yeah yeah. Some good. Yeah. Oh well see there's none of that. Yeah I think it's more. Yeah. Well it's again I couldn't do what I do. If Sam wasn't doing what he does, they couldn't do what he was doing.
If I didn't do what I did. Yeah. So we we both have busier times. You know, a lot of times I don't really visit. Yeah. I'm not that I'm not busy, but but I'm not as busy as I was required. Yeah. And then at silage time when, when I'm out baling, you know, and understanding all the jobs here so I can hopefully.

Yeah. And I can go on, you know, look after my customers are all our customers know sir, but do the jobs. So kind of open it. Yeah, yeah. I spun out a job. Yes I think I got used to being home involved. How's the downtime? Like, do you remove yourself from it? If it's something that you do as a group together, you go off and do it and don't go talk about farming.

Yeah. Go talk about something. Do you know what that's really important is? Because you've got to have that escape in some way. And I think, I think all too many in the sector I've been guilty of. Yeah. Because of all the for nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah I definitely yeah for that resilience and sustainability of that business and that system.


Yeah. You need that. You do. Yeah. You do need downtime. Absolutely. Again we have all sorts of different friendship groups. Yeah. So showing cattle. Yeah. You know we have them then that friendship group. Yes. Local farming friends or just us local normal school friends that we've grown up around. And, you know, you can go out within groups and you don't have to go talk about family.


You know, it's nice to be able to go out and not have to talk about taxes. Oh, you've been doing all that because, yeah, it's all you talk about every day. Yeah. So it's nice to just take a different perspective and just. Yeah. Yeah. Just yeah. Oh yeah.


Yeah, yeah. Just one final question. In terms of what this family farm means to you both. Just sum up and it's all. It's all we know. Yeah, it's a lot to put into it. Yeah. I think in the fact of we are so fortunate to have this. Yeah, yeah. And I think sometimes you do take it for granted and, but it takes to go away somewhere or speak to someone and I think yeah, I'm, I'm very lucky.


And I think with what we've got in front of us and our future now, we do have to do sort of look at as mum and dad and think we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for what them to have done. So for our futures, I think we're extremely grateful for that. But as a farm, I think that, you say, well, I just I just love it.


I just love home. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's great. And obviously what a want to achieve from from where the farm was in year 2000 or whatever it was to see that, to see out. Come on. And now to be able to actually employ their own. Yeah. And is, you know, is an achievement in itself. So all week and you've seen that, haven't you.


Yeah. Such a. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We've seen what you've witnessed. Yeah. And kind of that makes you. Yeah. It that ingredient. Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's a drive for us. Yeah. It's definitely a drive. And you want to be that. If they've achieved that well what can we achieve. Yeah. Together. All you know in whatever form. Yeah.


Yeah yeah. We just keep growing the business and. Yeah, who knows? You might be the holder of the future. Those thought it was people coming to the show know to get a sheep to. So yeah, I know, thank you so much for talking to you.


I really insightful conversation there around succession, which, let's face it, is a subject to this day for many farming families, is one that is pushed back and delayed for whatever reason. And I think main messages from that conversation is the importance around openness and honesty and the need for earlier conversations and progressively making that transition towards succession rather than leaving everything to last minute.


It was also great to hear from siblings who are so passionate about farming, about what they do and who are determined to make a career in farming together and keep farming as a place, which has always been their home. I hope you enjoyed the episode as much as I did. And next week we have another fantastic episode for you.

Next week on the Farmers Guardian podcast, we hear about the impact of livestock worrying in Wales from Brecon farmer Clive Jones. We also hear from the Welsh Rural Affairs Secretary, Hugh Grant Davies on the topic. And Wales is Wildlife Rural crime coordinator Rob Taylor. You're listening to the Farmers Guardian podcast. My name is Rachael Brown. Thank you so much for listening.