On Air at Groundswell: High animal health and welfare at the core of farm resilience

As part of our special podcast series brought to you by the School of Sustainable Food and Farming at Harper Adams University, this episode focuses on how animal health and welfare is key to improving the sustainability of farming systems and the importance of adopting a mindset of 'if you look after your livestock they will look after you'. Northern Ireland dairy farmer and McDonalds Progressive Young farmer at Dawn Meats Nathan McClure, Hertfordshire livestock and arable farmer and farm vet technician Molly Mead and Herefordshire mixed farmer Jack Lyke look at the importance of disease control, livestock's role in sustainable and regenerative farming practices and the role of technology and grants to support long term investment 

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Hello and welcome back to our second session of our special podcast series on the Farmers Guardian Podcast, brought to you by the School of Sustainable Food and Farming at Adamson University. This session is all about animal health and wealth, and I've got my brilliant panelists here. Nathan, can you first tell me a bit about yourself? Yes, of course I'm Nathan McClure. I am a placement student currently working with a beef processor in Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. we have a dairy farm at home, so I suppose traditionally, that's. That was my first introduction to agriculture. Brilliant. Thanks. Nathan and Molly. Hi. I'm Molly. so I live on, my family's beef and sheep farm in Hertfordshire. we also make our own rapeseed oil and have a farm shop. my occupation is a vet technician and TV tester. I'm also an NFU student and young former ambassador, and I'm doing the livestock vet technician apprenticeship at Hall for Adam's brilliant, very busy. And. Jack. hello. My name is Jack. I'm a beef farmer, from Herefordshire. We also do, stall lambs to finish cider apples on arable land. So animal health and welfare is such a huge topic, but really important and critical one for the resilience of our farm businesses. No matter what the sector is. First of all, what does animal health and welfare mean to you? So if I start off with you, well, it's a massive part of the business because if you're livestock safety, then, they're obviously going to be doing and producing, good quality meat, and hopefully rewarding me for a good price on the way. I'm on the way out. So I wanted to pick up on, you know, before we did this session, we had a bit of a chat, and you said this quote that your granddad said, if you look after your livestock, they will look after you. And I think that's a really poignant quote, really, because that is that is at the heart of it all. And it's from like that's from three generations ago. And it's still the same today, isn't it? So, you know. And what about you, Molly? What does animal health and welfare mean to you? so I think it's really important in livestock farming. obviously there's a lot of politics around, eating meat and farming animals. but I think if we're going to farm livestock, it's really imperative that we do it well. We have really high levels of animal welfare. and as a country, that's what makes, livestock farms the best, I think, in the world. So it's just really important that we're keeping animals, at the highest welfare levels we can. And, Nathan, what does it mean to you on your dairy farm? Yeah, well, animal health and welfare on our farm, I. Same as it would be the same in any farm in the country. You know, it is. It's the foundation of the business. Really? when you're farming livestock, it's like. Like Jack said earlier, you know, if you look after those livestock cows in our case and they will look after you. so, yeah, I would say animal health and welfare, you know, it's important now and it's it's only going to get more important. yeah. You can touch on, I suppose, the societal impact of, you know, we want to, to be sharing a good news story, as we go out on if we can show people good work going on and farms and happy animals and healthy animals, then I think that's only going to be a benefit and a part of that. Improving animal health and welfare is creating an environment where they're where they're living is satisfactory. And, you know, I have high standard. So how do this regenerative farming approach, how are we? You know, on your individual farms, how are you ensuring that you are creating a healthy environment for your cows and for your sheep? I think it is all about being proactive. So sustainability, and farming I think is a combination of both in terms of livestock farming, good welfare, managing your finances and looking at how you can maintain the environment. Because as farmers, we are the, caretakers of the land, obviously. So it's about balancing the finances, the environment, the animal welfare. and I think they all link together because if you're being proactive in your, health management in terms of, for example, fecal accounting, which I do a lot of that work, you're reducing your use of worm, reducing your resistance. You're financially saving money. You don't worm so often. and then it has a knock on effect to the environment in terms of your grazing rotation. So it's all very interconnected, I think. How about you, Jack? I'm a the regenerative farming back catches me out a little bit because we've been doing mixed farming for hundreds of years at home, and it's no different. So regenerative farming is just this new word that's popped up that everybody thinks, oh, God, wow, this is great. But actually the mixed farm and I've been doing it for years. So yeah, it annoys me when someone says, oh, I'm a regenerative farmer. Well, like mixed farming has been that for years. So yeah, it just gets under my skin a little bit. And can you give me some examples on your farm and how you are managing the environment to improve animal welfare. Yeah. So rotational farming. So we've got arable crops that then go into grassland for five years. so we've put in a fresh lay in front of the cattle grazing which is nice and clean, which is productive. and then we've always put little woodlands in where it's not quite, you know, easy to farm, generate shade for the cattle and then also environment for, you know, other animals. So yeah. So it's all mixed in really. How about you, Nathan, on your farm? Yeah, I would say, you know, echoing a lot of what Jac said already. for us that's about grassland management, foot rotational grazing. about setting aside areas for nature then as well. So I suppose in our farm it will be more small areas of woodlands and all the bog land as well. So it's trying to, to best manage that, you know, as well as we can in order to give, you know, give thoughts about wildlife and I suppose biodiversity as a whole, a chance to, to have that space in terms of your clients money and the advice that you're giving them in terms of, you know, making sure that there is high animal welfare on the farm and, and what strategies they can implement in farm to improve that environment for them. Yeah. I think, again, like you said, it's a lot of them where they've got arable as well. It's stuff they've been doing for a long time anyway, like at home. We've been doing that for a long time. it is about I suppose. Yeah. Rotational grazing. because like I said, in terms of parasite control, but also in terms of, say, lameness, for example, your pasture management is going to have a knock on effect to that. so it's again a balance of the welfare and the environment. but all these strategies that you're implementing is creating a more resilient farm. Yes. For you. Yeah. Because you mentioned that it's all interlinked with, you know, farms, ultimately the core of it are wanting to make a profit. Yeah, I think it's it's all about it's got to make sense financially. You know, people have got to look at their business structure, how they manage the farm, how they manage their finances, and work out what they can do. I think everything in terms of this regenerative farming, which, like you said, we've been doing for a long time, it's just about looking what we can do. Not everyone can do everything. But what can we slightly change, do a little bit better. That's just going to benefit the ground that bit more, benefit your animals a bit more. and looking at that, I think if there's farmers listening to this, those kind of small initial steps, if that, if they are thinking about how I can be more sustainable in the practices that they can improve on farm. Well, what tip top tip would you give them? Well, I would say for grassland farmers and for farmers who are grazing cattle or sheep or whatever it might be, I would say rotational grazing is is your place to start, you know, if you can, if you can set up products or smaller areas for animal series and rotation that's, you know, like, like, Molly said earlier, it'll really cut down on the parasite burden. So you'll get a massive animal health benefit through that. and it's, it's just best for the land as well. You know, it's it's going to help to build your solid organic carbon, and it will reduce any negative benefits that you might have had through SAT stalking. So if I was in their shoes, that's that's where I would start. And in terms of management of disease in her and some of the practices that you mentioned and farm helped that we go back to the worms, I suppose. Isn't that like rotational farming? And that's that's the massive, like clearing grassland and putting an arable crop in for 4 or 5 years and then back into the grass that's, you know, it's like cleaning the shout out, isn't it? I think it's about your, monitoring, isn't it? If you're doing like, routine testing for, so you say BVD, for example, and stuff like that in your cattle. it's just about your monitoring, seeing. Do I need to deal with this or do I not? And monitoring your health and having a high health herd is sustainable because if you're in a dairy and you're keeping replacement heifers, so you're keeping them, feeding them for 2 or 3 years, but your mortality rate is poor and you're losing those heifers, you've wasted 2 or 3 years worth of time and money keeping that animal alive. So a healthy flock or herd is the most sustainable way you can be a livestock farmer. Yeah, it's at the core, isn't it? I think I think that is it. Yeah. and then you obviously have if you want to get into genetics and stuff like and dairy farmers. Gene is now moving more into the sustainable cow. obviously you want to have high milk yields etc., but if you've got, say, a smaller cow, you're not going to have to feed it less, but you're going to have the, same output of milk. so stuff like that. is enough that the genetics is not going to depend on the efficient breeding side of things. for kind of sustainable livestock farming. How are you implementing that within your own farm businesses? Well, we're not breeding any livestock, so we're just buying in stores. So, yeah, it doesn't really apply to us, but, on the dairy side, I think this axmen is amazing, isn't it? It is. Axmen. Well, we've been using in on farm as long as I can ever remember, but it's more for me the information that salmon companies have now on both in regards to health threats. You know, that's been really building over the last 5 or 10 years. so yeah, within the UK and EU we have the healthy cow Index, which is an amalgamation of all of these different traits. So I could look I could look today on a brochure for a salmon company. See all the bulls. They have an offer and I'd be able to you know, they'll tell me the risk that that Bulls daughters will have for getting dental dermatitis or for lameness, or from a status or for having high sale codes. You know, there's so many different management traits that I can select for and breed for that'll give me a healthier herd in the future. And it's not only having that data available to you there from external organizations, but actually having the data available to you on the farm and monitoring that. So, you know, on farm, what what kind of data collection are you doing when it comes to animal health and welfare? well, I suppose on the genetics side of it, I can track through a HDB or genetic report. I'm able to track, the, the, I suppose the genetic merit of all animals on my farm, whether that is in their healthy index or whatever, the, you know, whatever the trade is I want to look at, I'm able to track that and select for the best animals to, to produce, to produce offspring of. But I suppose wider, wider reporting on animal health. There's a lot of information as dairy farmers stuff we get through the milk samples. So mastitis is a massive a massive thing on dairy, on dairy farms. So we milk through, robotic system at home and through that, every time I call is milked, I will get, I'll be able to pick up a rating of the conductivity of the milk from each quarter of that cow for that milking, which then is a reflection of the somatic cell kind of that high on that's per quarter. So I'll be able to really easily pick off on any early cases of status. But you know, in your case that is investment that you put into the farm to be able to have access to that data. And I think that's such a cool, cool part of it is the investment in new technology. And, you know, through government grants, we're getting that coming down the line for animal health. You know, that should be an area that the government are investing in and supporting farmers to be able to invest on farm in that area where we're running needs in all of our cattle. And, so when that bought, we put on there that price where they came from, what farm they came from, what market, and every time that way, then we know that daily life, weight gains and tracking them all the way through the farm to kale and that's like most massive that is yeah, it's really, really good. And in terms of you money with your own farming clients, obviously doing animal health reports on the farm. So the vet tech service, is something that's been developed over the past few years, and it's just kind of gathering momentum to be, kind of a legal ized, not legalized. a what's the word I recognized and, like, verified in the same way that vet nurses off. so in terms of data handling, data collection, where a vital service farms can use because so often the vets go to farms at your annual health review, you write tractor V, I go, oh, have you got these numbers? If you've got this data on the farms, got, well yeah. Somewhere they won't find out or they just don't have the data because they're too busy. So if farmers can utilize the vet tech service, which is hopefully a more affordable service than vets, then they can we can gather that data, we can process that data, feed it back to them and say, right, well, we've noticed this pattern. So what has caused this and what can we do about it to treat it or prevent it in the first place? so a lot of us that techs do mobility scoring, which is obviously, quite a lot of dairy contracts, so that's great because you're keeping an eye on the lameness and the essentially the welfare in the herd because you're seeing all of the cows. So even if it's not just lameness, you're seeing those animals. I and with TB testing. So you can get a good picture of the welfare on that farm. And if you're if something's not quite right, then we can speak to a vet and say, I've seen all the cows at this farm today. They looked a bit ropey, you know. Should we just have a word? and it's just about having that contact with farms as well, because I think quite often they feel like the vet to their sort of point out what they're doing wrong or, you know, almost spying on them. That we're doing a get in trouble. so I think it's definitely a matter of utilizing the vet tech service and we can get some momentum on that. I think that's a really useful tool. Do you think there's a need for a kind of more streamlined approach when it comes to animal welfare in terms of the data collection? Because like you say, you know, we've got them in dairy contracts. You know, each farm system has different organizations are asking for different bits of data. Yeah, it's hard to streamline it, isn't it, because these businesses are so different, like a dairy farm to a pig farm to a B farm. So I believe, there is some kind of collaboration in the works between DG farm. I don't even have a DG farm and HDB, so that you essentially only have to input the data once. So and obviously that's various apps that you can sort of input certain data, but there's a massive need for something. You can easily get your phone out your pocket, say, right, I've given this animal this medicine, and all your data is in one place. So when you get to your, your health plan, your red tractor, review, you can just go on your iPad and say, it's all here, take a look. That's the frustration of farmers is that is duplication is a burden. And there's a lot of farmers. Not very techie. Yeah. Isn't that so? It's exactly it's a long, long way behind. So some people and there's so much paperwork to everything now that it's a matter of I think farmers do what they have to do and anything extra which this data to them is an extra. That's not necessarily oh, I've got to do that. then they're probably not going to bother because they've got so much other things to worry about just out of interest. You know, obviously, under the new government funding, we've got the animal health and welfare grant. have either of you, you know, applied for that or looked into it? Yeah, we've had, couple of we've had three, squeeze crushers on that hydraulic squeeze crushers, a couple of hundred systems, an outdoor panel system for sheep. Yeah. No, it's brilliant for them. And in terms of going forward, do you think that kind of similar funding needs to be available to kind of entice farmers to, to update their facilities? Basically, yeah. Because what you all know is there's a lot of pretty, you know, and go over structures such a big thing, you know, in terms of having appropriate. Yeah. I'm saying for mine safety to staff is massive now isn't it. Like you know I think handling system again comes to that efficiency of if you say got to everything or you got to bolus everything and you've got a good handling system and you could just push them through in an hour or two hours, then get on with the rest of your day where you go to farm to watch TB test. You've got 60 animals today and it takes all day because the handling system is not up to scratch. So I think, yeah, like you guys said, it's a massive help to farmers and hopefully people have noticed the difference when they've got the new equipment. Yeah I think it is. It's like you say infrastructure is an essential part of making routine tasks easier and improving animal health through that. these sorts of grants are great to do that. but I think it's it can be I'd rather not rely on grants to, to have to come in every ten years or 20 years in order to, to get this new technology on farm. I think it would be a much better solution if farmers were able to fund that sort of investment, which is a whole different debate in terms of the supply chain. But but there's a very good point that you make that, Nathan, in terms of we, you know, a lot farmers, why should they have to rely on grants and funding that actually to farm businesses out to be financially sufficient and sustainable to be able to do that? But unfortunately, you know, I think it does. It just climates. It does. It points to the lack of financial sustainability that we currently find in the sector and in the industry is interesting, intensive. at the beginning that we were saying about kind of the reputation of the industry and getting that message out there, of a high animal welfare standards. Do you think we're doing enough? Probably not. probably not. When you look at, what the public is seeing, I suppose, there's a lot of stuff that we will know about on people here as well. We'll know about going on, but it's almost behind closed doors if you're not already in the industry. I think I think when it comes to public perception, we should be able to lean on our farm quality assurance standards. so as long as we ensure that the standards themselves will uphold the sorts of animal health and welfare that we are looking for and that we're happy with, I think that's, you know, that's the place to start. And then our challenge is sharing that message to consumers. So whether that means more people on farms or more farmers and schools or however we decided to do it, I think that's the first place to start. Jeremy Clarke, sorry. Jeremy Clarkson has done quite a good job at, I reckon, because he's got a great following, isn't he? And he's to be fair, everybody I speak to is not in farming. Like if you watch Clarkson's Farm and it does, he comes across well for farmers. So you know, you need some, you know, some, very famous people to do it. Yeah. Just like if just some farmers from down the road can do it, it doesn't really stand out, does it? Nobody listens. You're right. It is. It's important to have more good, bosses are for the industry, public facing ambassadors that we can point towards who can share the good news that's going on. Like if Clarkson had some, actual, like, proper, proper farmers with him to to take that message across. Yeah, I think that be very good. There's no doubt that he's done a, you know, an excellent job to try and get the industry out there. whether I get people talking about farming. but in terms of, reputational message, I want to be clear about labeling and food labeling. Do you think that needs to be more on that? How far do you take it? I know, and how many, because how much can you sell on a label? Yeah. So I mean, we can all drive home the message of buying meat as local as possible. Well, you know, not just meat, but all sorts of UK farmed produce. but when it comes to it, can everyone afford to shop at a farm, shops or a specialized. You know, I can't. I live at home because I can't afford to afford to move out. So actually I couldn't afford to buy all my produce at a farm shop for, you know, the month or the week or whatever. But what I can do is look to the red tractor and know that that's come from a red tractor farm and look for the, you know, the GB logo. So again, it comes back to what can each person do if they need cheap food, but they can look for the red tractor in the UK, then actually if that's the best they can do then that's good enough I think. hopefully I don't face too much backlash for that. But you know, we can't all afford to go and spend lots of money on produce, you know? No, I think it goes back to the discussion we just had. It's kind of that fairness in the supply chain that, you know, farmers are working hard. They are reaching high standards. And all farmers want is a fair return. And in terms of, kind of animal health and welfare, if there was a top tip that you could, give to farmers to kind of use their environment to improve animal health and welfare, what would it be, say the top tip to use environments? I would say know your soils, first of all. So know what you have in the ground. I'm so glad you said this, because that's the first time we've actually started talking about soils when it's such a critical point, because, you know, from the ground, if you don't look after your soils, then obviously it'll have ripple effects. Going through the farm business, it's easy as farmers to get caught up in thinking nuts. You know, all of our effort is going into the livestock on that is true. But essentially as farmers, you know, we're farming along based on that land base is capturing energy from the sun through the soil. And then we're growing crops, whether that's to sell crops directly or to feed animals. So it all goes back to the sun and the soil, really. So if we can ensure that the soil is operating as best as it can, the soil biology is all there. It should be on the soil. Chemistry is at its optimal levels and physically that soil is healthy as well. then I think, you know, you're setting yourself up as best you can. It's not a guarantee that you'll have a profitable business or even healthy livestock, but the healthiest livestock will be on healthy soils today. I'll be honest, I don't know a whole lot about. So I'm not a biochemist like Nathan. so, I'd go for probably pasture management in terms of rotational grazing. and also in terms of what breed you've got to suit your land. yeah. yeah, I'm a little bit worried about this. fssai. And, putting all these farms into wild bird seeds. Well, where those farms had, I don't know, 200 cattle and some arable, that's all gone into wild bird seed. And the farmer down the road is thinking, well, I'm actually going to keep my livestock. So you just bring the stocking density of that farm, which creates more problems. And then over there, they've got a lovely wild bird racks. So I reckon stocking density is going to be increased on some farms and completely taken out on others, which I think is quite important. What do you make of that point? I agree with the sentiment, definitely. I think, you know, you have the ideal situation really, when you're running a mixed farm or an enterprise, when you have the arable and then the grassland rotation within nuts, you know, that is it's you'd be hard pressed to find a better way to a better balance to produce and feed a high yield of good quality food. keeping your soils and the environment healthy. You know, I think that is something that's hopefully we see a move towards over the next few years. But it's difficult as well because I know at home that's at wouldn't you know, our land isn't suitable to cropping and there's a lot of land like that's in the UK. So it's hard. And that's an interesting point is, you know, it came up in the first session as well that every farm is different and you can't do a blanket approach where it's like the Cotswolds. The Cotswolds won't grow massive crops. So why don't we put that into FSA. And then the good like heavy clay that will grow some real good crops, keep farming it, you know, that's how we've got to approach it. But it is. It makes it very difficult. I don't envy policymakers in that way. And I think in the way we've seen SFI evolve over the last couple of years has proven to the fact that it is a complex issue, and that where it started was definitely not a place which people agreed with at all. And it has changed and adapted. But still, it seems a lot of work. Still, it is a lot of work. But that's why it's so important to have that industry consultation whenever they're going through policymaking. You know, it's it's because it's so different if you if you travel down or you're on the motorway from one place to another, you'll be in a completely different and completely different landscape when it comes to agriculture. So it's very hard to make blanket statements and rules. And in terms of hedgerow management, planting trees, obviously we we've talked about them kind of with livestock, you know, on a hot day like this great shade for them. It's meant that you've incorporated in your systems. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. shades massive for cattle, sunstroke and everything. So, and plenty of water around there for, Yeah. And then also create an environment where, where farm land that can't be farmed sometimes put that into woodland or, habitat creation. yeah. Yeah. At home I suppose. Where at the minute is focused on, you know, maintaining the hedgerows we do have. I'd love to over the next few years hopefully convince started to expand some of that. But, we'll see how it goes. But yeah, just as Jack said, there's a lot of research and you probably know more about this Molly going on and dairy cows, about heat stress because it's it's becoming such a big issue here in the UK, especially with intensive herds. so there's a lot of work going on and controlling not environments and providing them, you know, the best chance we can, whether that's through farms and ventilation or sprinkler systems. on adoptive technology. So yeah, there will be a lot of investments needed going forward in, I suppose, offsetting those impacts of climate change. I just want to pick up on that on that point, on heat stress money, because it is such a key topic is being discussed within the dairy sector particularly. So there's a few different approaches. So some people are rather than grazing their animals, actually just keeping them in year round. which obviously is fine providing that. And environment is falling from a health and welfare point of view. Like you said, ventilation. I don't know if anyone's ever heard of cow signals, but there's a lot of things in terms of your ventilation, your lighting. and yeah, the impact on milk production and milk yield from heat stress is massive. And it goes under the radar on some farms because they're not collecting their data, etcetera. but yeah, like you said, if you are going to keep them in and you're going to be, adding fans, etcetera, things like that, then it's how are we going to offset that? in an environmentally friendly way. so yeah, very, very interesting in terms of how we're going to balance it again, in terms of grazing or not grazing. and manage that. Perfect. Well, I think that ends it quite nicely. So thank you ever so much for I contribute today and have the best day. Thank you. Thank you.