'Consumers and retailers need to understand the value of wool as a global commodity' - The British Wool industry in focus

This week, Farmers Guardian reporter Chris Brayford discusses the value of the wool sector with British Wool chief executive Andrew Hogley. During the episode, Andrew talks about the challenges the industry faces, his passion to work with sheep farmers, the high-quality of wool as a global commodity, the importance of traceability and sustainability, the value of labelling, getting more young people into manufacturing and the future of the wool industry.

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you can trust me and everybody. I'm Chris Brayford and this is the farm's Guardian podcast. This week we're joined by none other than British Will chief executive Andrew Hockley. Andrew is going to talk to us about the inner workings of the sector, alongside the challenges it faces. His passion for work on the farmers and the value of the industry. We hope you enjoy this podcast. It's an absolute pleasure to be joined by Andrew Hockley, the chief executive officer of British Wool. Andrew, an absolute pleasure to be joined with you. Likewise this morning. could you firstly give us a little bit of background as to where where we are and could you just describe that for our listeners, please? So today, Chris, we're sat in rituals showroom, which is in our offices here in Bradford alongside one of our main grading depots as well. this space essentially is to showcase to customers, to manufacturers, to brands, the amazing versatility that we have within the British wool clip. So we've got British wool carpets on the floor, we've got knitwear, we've got high street jackets, we've got some transport fabrics, such as you see on the London Underground. The far corner behind me, we've got, some British mattresses, duvets and pillows. We have an incredibly versatile fiber, goes into a fantastic range of quality and products, and we should be proud of it. We need to be proud of it. And by having this space, we can showcase to customers and, more importantly, potential customers, the benefits of British wool. Fantastic. Could you tell us just a little bit about yourself and your role? British. So I joined British Wool. It's about six years ago now. my previous background was in finance, working in London, but I've been living up in Yorkshire and commuting down to London for too many years, so I wanted a real job. and I came in as a business analyst. And then during the pandemic, the board asked me to step up and lead the organization. That was a very challenging time. You know, had to go through a major restructuring. three years ago. but it's an organization that we have our challenges. But I feel we're making some important progress in key areas, and it's my job to help facilitate that and drive that forward. So that we can improve returns from members. Because at the end of the day, the British sheep farmer is not getting enough value for their wool. Excellent code. Could you just tell us what, for the listeners that might not know what? What is British wool? What is it? What does it stands for? Who does it represent? So the best way to think of British wool is as a farmers co-operative, legally with a statutory body. We were set up in 1950, but there's been no government support for the wool sector. on the financial support from well over 30 years. so we collect wool on behalf of about 30 to 35,000 sheep farmers across the UK. In terms of our operations, it's logistics, warehousing, sorting, operation. It's essentially ensuring that the wool that's grown in the UK can be economically processed. It's getting it into batches that are of scale and of a consistent quality that buyers can choose to buy British wool. I know how it's going to perform, because it's a very different type of wool that goes into a carpet, that goes into a mattress, that goes into a pillow. it's our job to maximize the value of that will on behalf of our members. So the biggest determinant of that is the value that we can sell the wool for. And that's where I think the most interesting opportunities, but also the biggest challenges. but it's also having a good service to our members local collection points, but doing that in a cost effective way as possible. Most of our costs are the warehousing and the logistics and the transport of what is a sickeningly low value but quite bulky commodity product. And we've got to operate as efficiently as possible whilst maintaining as high quality service as we can to our members, because we're here to maximize the value of the wool. So the sheep farmer. So on a little earlier we we had a little tour around the facility. Can you just describe the process of how the wool comes in and then what you do with that? So, Chris and I walked around, the Bradford depot, which is one of eight grading sites that we have in the UK, and that's a site where we sold. But the start of the process of shearing. And, one of the things that we're known for is, shearing training, instructors trained about a thousand people on our courses, every year harvesting the wool. It's vital that that's done right. But from an animal welfare perspective. But also you can destroy the wool. You can't really add value to the walls, considering that plus a ring technique can destroy the value of wool. Post shearing on farm, the walls gathered up. It's, We distribute wool sacks, wheel sheets, to our members so that they can pack it. Generally about 30 fleeces, two bags. So the banks are fairly bulky, but it works from a transport perspective. We then have the network of collection sites around the UK that essentially brings the ball into the depots. And where we have skilled stuff within British Rail, it's our wool graders. they generally train for at least three years. I had a colleague this week retired after 45 years of service as a wheel grader in, Newtown. depot. And that's not been unusual, for the business. So we do need to make sure that next generation is coming through. But it's the grading that really maximizes the value of the wool from a technical perspective. And as I've come to understand that process, it's not just about categorizing the fleeces. It's taking out the old fleece that will damage the value of the better fleeces. So if a fleece is riddled with straw, we don't want to leave that in with the other fleeces, fleeces, matted or cottony or has got black fiber in it. All of those types of feature will devalue the rest of the wool if that fleece is left in. So I don't particularly want to make, vegetable matter lot, but I don't want to leave that fleece in with the good fleeces because it will devalue everything else. So once we've sorted the wool, we're aggregating it into lots of commercial size. So a typical auction lot is eight tonnes of wool. The average number of farmers that contribute to that looks over 100. So to get eight tonnes of a consistent quality product, you've got to aggregate the wool from many farmers. A typical farmers clip will be graded into 15 or 16 types. So it's unusual and I have seen it on occasion, but it's very unusual for all of the wool from one farm just to go into 1 or 2 grades. So to give an example, a farmer up in the Yorkshire Dales may have a couple of blue face listed ups, some Swaledale ewes and then the mule sheep as well. So you've got three different, very distinctive types of wool. think any, any of our members will be able to tell the difference in the Swaledale fleece and the blue faced Leicester fleece, but then within that range of mule fleeces, you'll have the hogs and the you sow the hogs. At the first shearing, you've got a longer stripe length, you've got the first 15 months of growth and that will can be a bit finer. And then as the use gets older, they're a bit like the self. They go a bit grayer and you get a few more, gray fibers and some mule fleeces. can essentially felts up on the animals. But the wool is still good quality. But to extract the wool and turn it into yarn, it requires more processing. If you left that cotton fleece in with the loose fleeces, it would clog up the machines in the processing plant. So it's separating it, thinking, how is this wool going to be used? And by doing so, we try to maximize the value for our members. All right. Good. we we were talking earlier as well about, the traceability element not being very critical for both yourselves. for your, for your customers as well, isn't it. That's that's really important. So there's two elements, within this, I think first of all, it's realizing that wool is a global commodity. Like when the warehouse, through the door behind me is full. It can hold 5 million kilos. So it looks like a lot of wool in the global context, it's next to nothing. the entire UK wool clip is only 2% of global supply. So we're competing not just against New Zealand. And I don't necessarily see New Zealand as a competitor. I see them more as a, another market that's on the same trend. Plastics are our main competitor. at the end of the day, they plastics dominate the global fiber market. But within the wool market, there's more Mongolian wool, there's more Iraqi wool, there's more Sudanese wool than there is British wool. And step one is to get brands to care that they use in British wool. So everything in the showroom around me is made by manufacturers. That's a specifying British wool, for their products where we're elevating that. And it can be a battle to get manufacturers to specify British for many manufacturers just want the cheapest wool they can get from anywhere in the world. And it's the same with any commodity product. If it's sold as a commodity, you got a commodity price. We want to be getting the maximum value. So hey, specify British rule. But by adding that farmer story, adding the traceability, saying we know that the wool you're using in that batch of mattresses came from these farms. We can charge a premium for that. And it's a system we introduced a couple of years ago. But in the last financial year, it generated an additional 150,000 pounds of revenue for our members. and by putting the system in the depots, it's also giving us productivity improvements and operational benefits and reduce costs. So it's a key transformation that the team has delivered over the last year. The challenge for our marketing team is now to grow the 600 tonnes. It's been sold as traceable. It's a thousand tonnes, 2000 tonnes, 5000 tonnes, over the next two years, so that we can differentiate the price that we're achieving from our members, from that global commodity price, because a global commodity price does not give a return that is sufficient for our members. Okay. Very good. if I may, I wanted to pick up the, the longevity element at the people that have worked here and that are part of the industry. They it is filled with such passionate and proud people, isn't it, that loves doing what they do. Yeah, and that runs through the business. It's one of the things that I love about the business. And it's not just our employees, it's some of the holiest and collection sites we've worked for. There's, one of the holiest on Middleton who, collects in the northwest. He's been working with us for over 50 years. Great relationships with the local farmers, in his area. But in terms of our depot staffs, referred to Pete, who resides in the new South Depot. this week he did 45 years of service to the company on the grading table, and we've had 3 or 4, people retire over the last couple years. With that breadth of service, what's been really important has been getting that knowledge, getting that experience out of their heads to the next generation of wool graders coming through. And we do now have a really good, strong team in, depots of newly qualified greatest graders that are on the verge of qualification. Comment. Amy, when we were in Bradford, she's been with us 18 months or so, but we've got that across the network because it's a real skill, being able to take a fleece out of the the wool sheets from. And they have to make a decision very quickly. Yeah. 3 or 4 seconds. Which of those 100 different product lines is the best place for that fleece? do you think how do we maximize the value of that fleece for our farmers? But you've got to maintain the confidence in your product quality from your buyers as well. we can't all say it's number one on that. We can't say it's all blue face. Lester. I'm biased. Trust what's going on in the bales. And that's a trust that's been built up over many years. This last year, of the 4000 auction lots, we had zero call quality control complaints. That, to me is testament to the quality of the work that our graders are doing. And it's not just the graders. it's the whole team. It's the man on the packing machine puts the wrong scrap of wool in a bale. It can destroy the whole job. It can destroy all the work that the graders have done. So it's essential that we're delivering quality for our customers all the way through our process. Fantastic. I'd love to touch upon kind of the the young generation by bringing the next generation into the industry that is also critical in the in the future. Yeah. Of of this isn't and and it's not just an issue for British wool. It's our stage of the supply chain. It's an issue for the wool processing industry in the UK as a whole. Where are we getting the new cardigan engineers from? When are we getting new spinning technicians from? Over the last 30 years, and a lot of the manufacturing base that we used to have, particularly in West Yorkshire where we're based, has gone, but we do still have the capacity to produce wool products in the UK. UK last week was one of our licensees, Brockway Carpets and Kidderminster, who is still making carpets from British wool, and the entire processing chain, from scouring to spinning to the manufacture of the carpets, is UK based. We've got computer fabrics that make the London Underground fabric. They're based in Meltham and those are sale. We've got the Harris Tweed manufacturers and the start of the process. There are only two facilities in Europe that can actually wash wool, once in Bradford, once in Dewsbury, that our most important customers and think in terms of your listeners, Chris, they'll all be familiar in the meat industry with how important the abattoir as I mean, the real challenges there, particularly with small abattoirs that many of our members face. It's the same with the wool scouring. If we lose wool scouring in the UK, the whole industry, is in real danger and that we're down to just two processing plants in Europe. It's vital for our members, for the long term that we keep the manufacturing, capacity and that we work collaboratively with the supply chain that we're, taking them the ideas, giving them the marketing support so that they're specifying British wool and that that processing capacity remains viable. It takes huge amounts of energy and huge numbers of people to transform wool into the quality, products we see around us. So to give a couple of examples, a spinning. So one of our greatest wool, great 25 tonnes of wool a week there or thereabouts to spin 25 tonnes of wool, you'll need a factory with tens of million pounds worth of spinning machinery, and probably 120 staff and 30,000 pounds a month electricity bill. we need that industry. We need it to be economically viable. We need the young people coming into that industry and I am concerned about the age demographic within UK manufacturing. we need to be giving them that support. coming through, working with them. We've got to see textiles as a viable, career and it can be a very exciting career. The engineering in some of these machines is fantastic. Now, the engineering and the tractor looks good, but when you see a spinning, loom that can do 100 cones at the same time and it's auto splicing the arm back together, when you get gets a break in, it, you can just watch it all day. It's absolutely fantastic, but it's expensive kits. Now, a single loom can cost 2 million pounds. so we do need that industry to be there, to have a market to sell into. Our interest and we I think we, we were talking earlier about kind of the, the importance of British wool into terms of, is there's that recognition for how vital it is. You know, if we if we look, maybe a hundred years ago, people with predominantly wearing, you know, you know, it was it was an important aspect of like the clothing, for example. whereas now where we're going for cheap, plastic alternatives. How how do we change that? So to give the context, 70 years ago and post-World War two, wool was a strategic national resource. When we were established as an organization. And, you know, the wool of being used for the military uniforms, if you look at a photo from a football match 70 years ago, every man once many women children in Wales, but every man out of wool jacket on wool trousers, you look at a photo of any football match, on the TV this weekend, there might be half a dozen men in suits in the directors box wearing a fine Australian merino suits, but everyone else in the stands is wearing polyester. team team strips. Well, prime moc shine fast fashion. That's what we're really up against. Every man, woman and child on the planet uses 12kg of fiber a year, and that's half a dozen fleeces with a, fiber. But only 1% of that fiber is, well, 70% of it. It's plastic, it's synthetics, it's fossil fuel. however, however you want to emit and the quality brands over the last few years I've seen the transition. So some of the sustainability focused brands that are genuinely starting to get five years ago was a tick box exercise. But we now often see quality brands caring about the provenance, caring about the quality, caring about the recyclability of their clothes. But for the fast fashion, there's a huge way to go. We did a piece, with, Patrick Grant, one of the judges on the great producing day, where he came and, did a piece for our, social media. And the last the average person in the UK gets through 169 pieces of clothing a year by quality by. Well, the man had a straight jacket that, I'm generally in when I'm representing the business. Formal functions that that's a less meant for 2025. Yes. Quality product. Yes. It cost a bit more, but there's a difference between value and price. and it's the same in the carpet sector. It's the same in the bedding sector in the UK. Now we get through about a million polyester filled pillows a week. And that business model is you take oil out of the ground, you turn it into polyester, it goes into pillowcase for 2 or 3 years, it gets lumpy and it goes into landfill. We've got to think about the environmental damage, the environmental footprint by having quality wool products. Not only will you sleep better because you don't have breathable hello, you know you're surrounded by natural fibers, but the environmental impact of your purchase will be so much less. And we've to think about that. Whether it's your mattress, your carpet, your clothing. I strongly believe that Will has a positive future. It can be a solution to a lot of the environmental problems and challenges, but consumer behavior needs to change. It's like we're seeing it's at the quality end of the market already. That's a huge, long way to go. And don't underestimate the vested interests of the fossil fuel industry, the synthetic manufacturers, the budgets they have and that British will can't win this fight by ourselves. And that's why organizations such as the International Textile Organization, that we're a member of, the campaign for wool, one of the sons of getting that message out to the the global consumer audience and having the strength by working with our partners in New Zealand and Australia to do the lobbying at the EU level, for example, is it's really important. It's also an unseen element of the work that we do, but it's a really important element of the work that we do to ensure that wool as a fiber, has a long term future. I think that the, the high quality aspect of it is so critical because from from what I can see from, you know, from hats, from jumpers, from, chairs, etcetera, that there's just such a, you know, that you can't be the quality the it offers. And if it's clothing, the comfort, the ease, whether it's, you know, your mattresses, you pillows, it's just the comfort. It's such a, And it's really enthralling. Yeah, it's the comfort. It's the durability. Some of the other technical characteristics. there's a reason that your premium hotels, your cruise ships specify wool carpets for the floor. It's for the durability. It's for the appearance retention for the fire retardant. well, most plastics in most people's homes are made of, plastic. they're, essentially polyester. You've got a bunker burning fire or a stove. You don't want the polyester carpet in front of it, essentially, for oil on the floor. and in the contract sector, they get that. That's why they're specifying wool carpets. 90% of the carpets sold in the retail environment, a plastic. And getting some of those key messages across to consumers. That's really crucial there. I think it was quite important to to really it. So to understand that there is that recognition in there amongst the customers as well. They're wanting a product that is British produced in Britain and it is British, but there are challenges within that around labeling as well. Isn't that often the consumer doesn't know what what it is that they're buying. so, so all the brands in here, a certified British wool product. So the manufacturers have been through that supply chain, with us. And that's why we've given them the accreditation. And now you've got some imagery of the type of logos and swing tickets that go on genuine original products. But there's almost to a name and shame. But there are many, many products that have a Union Jack on the label that the consumer would naively assume. And I don't blame the consumer in this regard to see the Union Jack. This it's made from wool, to see the sheep on the hill and assume that the wool from those sheep, it translates into the throw, the blanket, the jumper in the local gift shop. Clarity on labeling is absolutely key. And in terms of I have a small number of asks, so where politicians could really make a difference. One of them is clarity on labeling. Was it nine months ago? We had a scandal in the pork industry where some, pork, I think it was from, the Netherlands was labeled as British pork. I would love to have that scandal in the textile industry, because it would show that, we've made huge progress from where we are. I want the consumer to know what it is they're buying. And that's there's all the way through the manufacturing supply chain. Now, what are the factory conditions the product was made in? What was the environmental impact and the transport footprint of, bringing that product from the other side of the world. But crucially for our members, where was the wool grown when there's lots of wool carpets in the carpet shop, they're not all made from British wool. and in terms of what the consumer needs to look for, it's our shepherd's crook logo on the products. and then suddenly that logo is on the products that it's been authenticated of. It's actually come from UK sheep farmers in terms of the of which I know we we've spoken about the some of the challenges, but what at this moment, what are some of the main challenges that both yourselves are facing? she, she she found this too. So if I talk about ourselves, first of all, the biggest challenge is the commodity nature of the global movement. So plastics, cheap, durable. They've driven down the price of wool. If you look at the, chart of global plastic production and the price of wool over the last 70 years, it's crystal clear that it's plastics that have driven it. But it's the the point I was making about the commodity nature. We've got to get Brown specifying British wool. That's what we can do. I went on a trade trip to India. about six, eight weeks ago. trying to understand the market. It's the second biggest processor of wool after China, anywhere in the world. but when I was there, I was talking to companies that were getting wool from elsewhere. We're competing against Iraqi wool. You can have a million kilos of Iraqi wool delivered to India for 26 US cents a kilo, including the transport costs. That's what we're competing against in the global markets. If we sell at a commodity price, that's not even going to pay for the truck to go up the lane to the farm to deliver the wool shakes, we've got to be getting, a better price than that in terms of the challenges our members are facing, forcing the weather of, the last few months, that has impacts on us as well. a year and a half ago. It's hard to remember after the winter. We've just had boots. I was at Rover show and it was 40 degrees trying to add 100 street jackets when I was talking to, one of the Welsh government ministers. But the summer of 2022, there's no grass in the fields. And as a result, the fleeces we've been grading and sorting over the last 12 months were much smaller, but we had 2.5 million kilos less wool coming through our network. That's 2 million pounds less revenue coming through our network just because we've had, a very hot, dry summer. And the fleeces were smaller. Hopefully the wool that starts coming through our doors in the next few weeks and months. The fleece is a, a forget, but that's an illustration of how the climate and unpredictability of the weather has had an impact on us as an organization. But our members are seeing that the challenges in terms of regulation and the unfairness of the playing field and I don't mind just I'm proud that British farmers have got high standards. And that's one of the key marketing messages when we're talking to brands, the environmental standards, the animal welfare standards, that's something we should be really proud of. But that can't be undermined by allowing cheap imports into the UK and not having a level playing field. We've got to make sure that our members are rewarded for the quality that they work to and the standards that they adhere to, and it's a massive point of differentiation when it comes to selling the wool. But the Iraqi woolen referred to two minutes ago that doesn't have the same animal welfare standards. It doesn't have the same environmental standards. The quality of the shearing, that we have in the UK, which we've got the world champion, the moment, we have the best shearers in the world and the quality of the shearing we have here, which is in part, supported by the training that we provide. It's a world apart from what you have in some of these third world countries where people are essentially kneeling on sheep, using scissors to get the fleece off, you've got to get the brands caring about things like that. We've got to, make sure our members are rewarded for the quality they work to. Do you think there's an argument then? So I'm kind of, you know, I presume with the by British element. So that is mainly towards kind of the, the food and the labeling. But do you think that could be expanded so it could be in terms of like. The items that we buy, I want the consumer going into the carpet shop to say, show me your wool carpets. Now that's possible. Number one, get it? I don't want to see the plastic carpets. I want to see the wool carpets. And then where and when. They're in the corner of the shop where the wool carpet ranges are, which are the ones made from British wool, which are the ones where I can actually support the UK sheep farmer by saying, because the manufacturers will only make the British wool carpets if they can sell them and they can sell them at a better price than they can. So the carpets made from the cheapest wool from anywhere else in the world. So we've got to have that consumer drive. But you've also got to have the manufacturers on side with you in that message. So a lot of the work we do and the marketing team does is providing the collateral, providing the sort of providing the training to the manufacturers and the retailers to empower them to sell British. So empower them to specify British oil and the products. And we've made some great progress on that over the last few years. So we reset our licensing scheme about six years ago now. We said, you can only have our logo if you prove to us that you're using British oil and then products clean slate, because there were lots of people claiming it was British oil price, and that when the product wasn't and over the last 5 or 6 years. But it's something we should be proud of. We should be celebrating. We've now grown to having over 150 brands just specifying British rule in the products, and that's about a third of the clip I want to get to. 110% of the clip is being specified. So when we get to that stage, the process can start to look after itself. But it's got to be a brand that has and it's working with us for the long term. We can't have them saying, oh, but your will is now £0.02 more expensive than New Zealand. Well, I'm going to stop using British. Well, I'm using New Zealand. Well instead we've got to have that commitment and buy in and partnership with the brand so that as the price rises, which is what we're all here to do, they'll continue to specify British will in the moment switch to a cheaper alternative. Do you think it needs, Maybe not to have a go but at a like a political level as well. We need politicians to be barking and and showing that the very high quality of British will, you know, we need so influence. So I mentioned earlier, Chris, I, I've nailed it down to two asks the politicians one's labeling that we've discussed the other's procurement. So on the school dinner plates you can specify that it's local lamb local beef, local chicken. The our children are eating. Why can we not specify that it's British rule on the carpets of that school, that government offices. Why are they not carpeted in British wool. No. British wool makes a product the Kiwis and I'm doing this and providing this type of support to the New Zealand wool growers. If the British Government, Welsh Government, Scottish Government, Northern Irish government got onside in the procurement policy, they could really make a difference. So transport Fabrics, we have a fantastic manufacturer here in West Yorkshire making transport fabrics. The Welsh Government is it's funding a Welsh transport project should be saying I want it to be Welshpool and the fabric on the seats of this new line, the busses or this set of trains that they've got some fantastic me off that as a politician. But it was more importantly for us it would translate into demand, and it's only if you've got that demand for your products that we can find a better price for it. In a commoditized market. Why? Passionate about working in this industry? Andrew? It's. Over the last few years. Well, first of all, I love the products, I love I love the sort of I think it's something that I recognize. Our members are not getting in the valley to the wool. And I want to do something about that. but my, my previous career in finance, it was something very intangible British role as an organization. It's a small enough organization that I can know everyone in the business. I see the commitment that there is, there's some significant changes, such as a traceability, system that we've put through some of the changes we've made in the auction system to make that lots more competitive. I can see we are making, but there's a lot of things that I'm really proud of that the team has delivered and achieved. We now need to get that translating into the wool price for our members, because at the end of the day, that that's what matters most. Farmers in the UK that will check is less than the value of a lamb that we've got to make. Making a material contribution, that's a bare minimum. It needs to be covering the cost of shearing. And I know every time one of our members pays assurances to the sheep discussing 1.70 pound, the best types of wool, the perhaps only getting £0.70 a fleece. To me that is not right and it costs more to wash that fleece that our members are getting for it. That's where our freshness. I want the returns our members are getting to be meaningful, but we can only do that with members supporting us, sending the wool in so that we've got the volume coming through, the infrastructure, and we can maintain the scale that we can invest in the marketing, that we can invest in working on brands on their behalf. But we've also to be driving the business ourselves, driving the efficiencies, driving the operational improvement, and driving that differentiation in the market. So the brands are, demanding British wool, fighting for British rule and paying a high price for British wool. There are there are a lot of challenges within the industry at the moment, but I think it would be very it's very important to believe that there is a very positive, a very bright future for British Columbia, isn't that, I'm convinced has a bright future. So the change I see with the conversations we now having with brands where they are starting to care, and Graham, who know you'll be talking to, later, he, he and his team have been really driving that through working with brands. but people now get the plastics are a problem now. The microplastics, environmental pollution, the damage plastics are doing to our planet, it's become real for people. and I think David Attenborough on some of his fantastic documentaries, for profiling that to the wider audience. There's a huge way to go, though, to give it will be starting to move in that direction and, more and more of the companies and brands on talking to are thinking about that environmental footprint. So the scouring that we have in the UK absolutely vital to what we do about we're seeing the main scouring plants is invested in combines heat and power. they're investing in, anaerobic digestion to generate from the effluent and that wastes the gas to drive the heaters to. So now driving the efficiency through see the same in many of the spinning companies that we're talking to. We we've invested in solar. Think about the environment. It's becoming real. And that's what's going to drive political change. And that's what's going to drive consumer change, in my view, over the next 5 to 10 years and through that, I think we can have a very bright future. But there are challenges. So don't underestimate the power of the oil industry and its lobbying and the way it's presenting synthetic fibers as an alternative. Now, we do have a battle on our hands. And I referred to the WTO International Textile Organization earlier that their complains about make global. I wanted some of the legislation that's coming through at the U. level. We do need to fight for this. It's not it's not going to just happen. We've got to fight. Very. Finally, how can people maybe learn more about British rule? How can they be part of this organization? So I would encourage any farmer to come in to their local. We have an open doors policy. And so one of our challenges is many of our members because they drop their wallets at local collections. I've never actually seen what we do. and, you know, come and talk to the team. And when you drop off, you will have a conversation with the guy at the intake door. Go and see the wool being graded. Understand that your will is different from other people's, wool. But we're a co-operative. At the end of the day, we can only succeed and deliver some of the things I've been talking about. If we have the support of the farming community now, we need to handle the volume of wool to stay economical as an organization so that we can improve their returns. So those are open. Come and talk to us. Work with us. If you have an idea to add value to wool, I'm all ears. It's, I won't have all the good ideas. It's my job to help make the good ideas happen. Wonderful. It's. From what I've seen, it's just kind of one of the, You know, the facilities here. outstanding. The people that work within it are fantastic farmers. Vitally important to that as well. But, Andrew, thanks for your time now, Chris. Thank you for your time. And we'll get you shearing the sheep sometime this summer as well. I can't wait, thank you. Thanks to Andrew and the team from British Rail for all their hard work and effort during the recording of this podcast. We hope you enjoyed the episode. The latest edition of Farmers Guardian is on sale right now, but in the meantime, thanks for listening and a fantastic week and let's catch up next time. Goodbye and.