As an upland tenant farmer the NFU’s new vice-president Rachel Hallos will be a powerful voice as the union navigates unprecedented change.She may be new to the role, but NFU vice president Rachel Hallos was keen to let members know she was not afraid to ‘speak openly', promising to bring some 'straight-talking northern charm' to the leadership team. Ms Hallos runs an upland beef and sheep farm in Ripponden, West Yorkshire, working in partnership with her husband, Stephen, as well as her son, Sam, and daughter, Anna, on a Yorkshire Water tenanted farm. Over the last 20 years the family farm has evolved from a dairy unit, to now a beef herd and hill flock with a focus on environmental outcomes. Ms Hallos said there had been many ‘tough times' along the way, but she was keen to draw upon the journey as part of her new role.
As an upland tenant farmer the NFU’s new vice-president Rachel Hallos will be a powerful voice as the union navigates unprecedented change.She may be new to the role, but NFU vice president Rachel Hallos was keen to let members know she was not afraid to ‘speak openly', promising to bring some 'straight-talking northern charm' to the leadership team. Ms Hallos runs an upland beef and sheep farm in Ripponden, West Yorkshire, working in partnership with her husband, Stephen, as well as her son, Sam, and daughter, Anna, on a Yorkshire Water tenanted farm. Over the last 20 years the family farm has evolved from a dairy unit, to now a beef herd and hill flock with a focus on environmental outcomes. Ms Hallos said there had been many ‘tough times' along the way, but she was keen to draw upon the journey as part of her new role.
Hello and welcome back to the Farmers Guardian podcast. My name is Rachael Brown, and for this week's episode I visited nephews newly elected vice president Rachel Harless at her Upland farm in West Yorkshire. Rachel runs a Yorkshire Water tenanted beef and sheep farm with her husband Steven, as well as his son Sam and daughter Anna. It really is a family affair, and Rachel said she is keen to let members know that she is not afraid to speak openly, promising to bring some straight talking Northern charm to the NFU leadership team. Rachel, congratulations on becoming the vice president. Why did you want to take on this role? Who currently has a big question? I just know that there's an awful lot going on in our industry right now because I know what we're feeling around our own kitchen table at home. The conversations we're having, and if I can help people find their path through whatever it is that we're going through right now, then I want to do that. For me, it's about engaging with the members. It's about engaging with the wider industry because there's got to be a path through it that suits us all, surely. Obviously you're joining Tom and David within the office holder team. What do you think that you can bring different to them? that's a question that really exposes some respects. And I don't know. I think I think having a woman in the room gives a different viewpoint sometimes. I also know that the experience that we've had on farm here, we've had tough times and there's still lots of days on this farm here. Coming from a farming background as well may be different to theirs. That's, you know, very much I've always been brought up in the hills, you know, the moors are my home. I think it will bring maybe a difference, a different balance to some of those conversations. I don't know. Ask me six months time I saw it and how I think expecting it and I don't know. I think I think that's what I'm going to bring. That's what I'd like to bring different points of view. But leading up to the elections, you very much had that message that you know, just because you're a woman being nominated, you didn't want that to define you. You wanted to be put that on merit. Yeah, but in terms of being a woman in the industry and kind of the barriers that are still there, we were making headway, but there are still barriers that exist. Just want to get your opinion on that. If I'm very honest, I haven't had major barriers in my life. I don't know why that is. I just haven't. Yes, I've had comments made some about comments made to me during the election. The just one liners, I don't think have been meant to harm in any way or form. It's just seems it's okay. You can say that to a woman. You wouldn't say that to a man. And I guess that's just something that's we as individuals, you yourself in the role that you are in. We've just got to maybe just hit back every now and again and just STEM. We've got a different job to do, though. If we if we start chipping back too much with costs as different people, it's you've almost got to try twice as hard. But for me, it's just about normalizing women in this industry. They've always been there. I remember my grandmother wearing her clogs and believe you me, you when Grandma said joke, everybody jumped on that phone. They jumped fast. And her and I look at my own daughter and the role that she's gone off and then she's strong willed, she's strong minded, but she also respects of the people's views. And I think she's is about we're all one. Now, you took a slightly in terms of that family having your daughters involvement on the farm. You said it's a real family ethos here at your farm. Yeah. What does that mean to you? Why is that so important? Family means a lot to me. I'm the youngest of six, so family has always meant a lot to me and my mum and dad. My mum was an only child, so for her to have so many children is was really strange. But it's just who we are. And I just think you can achieve more as a family and Feroze Stephen And I'm a husband. We've always spoken very openly about the farm, about the business, even from the children being very young. We've had very open conversations around this table that was set up now, and it's made families everything. And I'm afraid I know I am the vice president of the NFU, but my family will always come first for me. And in terms of the family farm, that's such a treasured thing in our industry, that must be really important that we value that. Yeah, I think and I think people don't often recognize that when it comes to family farms as a whole, bunch of emotions that sit behind it. It's your family home. It could have been your parents or your grandparents home and beyond. And I think there's quite a lot of pressure to make sure that you can carry on the legacy. There's a lot of legacy that goes on with family farms and sometimes you've got to, as parents, working with your children. We are really, really close here, but we have our own moments, believe you me. And it's about trying to. Yes, you parents, but you're also working in business together. That's why I said, how do you draw the line? That dynamic is difficult. Yeah, it is difficult at times. It really is difficult. As I said, we do have our moments here sometimes, but I guess that's when you just go, okay, can we just come come in from around the kitchen table? Yeah, You do In here? Yeah. You don't carry on outside. But I guess to be fair, that's what we've always done with some another when there were children, if there was something wrong, you dealt with it, you moved on, you didn't carry it on. And it's exactly the same in the business. When we have discussions about what we're doing next, what you know, what ideas have they got. So they're very good at bringing their ideas to the table and have been doing for a number of years now. And it's about Steve and I respecting their ideas, but by respecting their ideas, they turn respect towards Steve and I think as well. So it's mutual. He says he's finding your path through it, obviously in the office all the time. You are the only northerner you're excited to bring a bit of north in the local area. Absolutely, Yeah, of course. Sam, I just it is very, very different. We are different, you know, I mean, contrary to popular belief, we are different. North and we have different different concerns. We if you almost look about how if you go to the very north of the region, we do a lot of trade Scotland's, you know, we do trade with islands, you know, move a little bit lower down the country. Yes, of course is with Wales, but we do do things differently. And I think he's is bringing that voice to the table. To the west, for example, is about is about taking those concerns to wherever it is I am, whether it's in London, whether it's in Stone Lake, where head offices is, is not saying we're not. So listen to us. It's about bringing up points of view. And obviously at the moment we are really entering, you know, political uncertainty, the general election coming and being around that table. I've never been so important. How are you ensuring at the moment that there is action taking place and it's not just warm words and political words to try and win votes? How are you ensuring that policy is getting through and change is happening? Well, I mean, I'm new to this game at this level, so all I can say to people listening to this is that I will speak openly and honestly. There's nothing to hide when it comes to me here. I will face whatever I need to face. And it's about really bringing to life the things that we're asking for or we're suggesting this is not we won't want want. What I want is about what is it that we need as an industry to function at our best capabilities and to deliver for the country? And I think that's that's something that we need to talk about. Not once need. And I think it's about getting that message across and actually put in real lives behind those messages so people can they can resonate with it, bring that human being told, yeah, bring it to life, because there are so many amazing stories around this country, people doing great things on their farms and there are so many farms are really struggling with what we're facing, especially right now in all different levels, whether it's a small family farm or whether there are huge business world facing different issues. But if you can make the real then the resonate that bit more, How do you look to bring the experience and your journey here on the phone to your role? Because obviously it's not been easy here. I know you know, you've changed a lot, but it's taken a lot of work after that. You know, we were talking about earlier, you know, a lot of sweat and tears at times, too, to get to the point where you are now here, here on your farm, how are you going to bring that experience to your role in how to do that kind of will help you? I think to get this only step move is the fact that I've lived it. So when you've left, something is ingrained in you and you can take that into the conversations with you and you can also understand why perhaps sometimes other members feel like they do and want to vent. Yeah, you know, sometimes you just need to let off steam and sometimes it might be in the wrong place, right place, whatever. But sometimes you just need to let it happen because it needs to come out. And then again, it's about listening. It's about respecting what's been said to you and actually finding that mutual ground. Yeah, because I have been through it, because we have experienced hard times here and it's not easy now, believe you me, it is not easy right now. I say we're trying to find our way through it, and it's about that shared experience. You I think honesty and credibility, integrity is is so important, these values. And obviously at the moment, going through the governance review we've had, we've had these sorts of you have a transition from assurance. There has been some criticism of of the interview as of late in terms of communications and messaging. I know that something that you're really passionate about in terms of trying to improve communications with active members on non-active members, how do you hope to achieve that? What's going to be done on the ground? I don't think there's one thing that fix is all is really straight. I think we're in a really strange place at the moment with communication. You know, at the Farmers Guardian, there are so many different ways to communicate right now and people want their communication fast. They want to yesterday, they want tips in terms of so clear and concise that there's no doubt. And sometimes you've got to speak, sometimes you've got to go through a process before you can release information, because there's a whole series of things behind the scenes that have to be gone through that. Why would anybody recognize that that needs to happen? And I think it's about getting that message out there quicker. But again, it's recognizing how do people want to hear that information? And that's really difficult at the moment because with the different ways of communicating, there are so many different ways. And it's about who's your audience as well, who listens on what's platform. It's how can you actually accommodate all those different people, all those different, slightly different languages all at the same time? It's not an easy task communicating at the moment. Yeah, it should be the simplest thing in the world. Yeah, I'm not an easy fix. I'm in terms of farmer farmer protests. Obviously we've had protests happening across the border in Wales. Here in England, you've got protests happening with farmers going out. There is a sense that they feel like the uni isn't doing enough for them, so they want to go out and protest because that their frustration frustrated them. There is a lot of frustration. Are there are groups forming now? Are the farming groups that feel like they want their voice to be heard? And I just wondered as a vice president, a newly elected vice president, is that something that concerns you? And with NFU membership, how are you going to ensure that that is sustained and you increase it? I think there's a lot of different things going on there and I think if tackle the membership element first, I think if we are relevant to our members and we communicate what it is that we do and sometimes it's not shiny, some of the jobs that we do not showing a big ticket items that we do, there's a whole load of things that go on that people will never ever know about. And you, it's almost so much that you can't always communicate what it takes to be prime example. I spent 3 hours at a communications roundtable meeting yesterday. Why is that? If you a communications meeting with with, you know, mobile phone companies, because we need to make sure that our members are safe. We need to make sure that our members can have access to communications. We need to make sure that they can actually fill in the forms online that now they're being asked to do. So. Those things aren't shiny and exciting, but the group work that goes on behind the scenes, and if I wasn't there yesterday, who would be there representing farmers? So there's a whole piece of work there about how do we articulate the the stuff that we do to our members to make sure that they recognize we are working on their behalf every single day, doing those sort of things. And I think when it comes to protests, I understand why they're angry. I really do understand why their anger is such a difficult one, because who are we to tell anybody what to do about their own personal thoughts or their own businesses? We just keep doing the day job and do it to the best of our ability. And sometimes it's a really slow burn, really, really slow burn. And then you'll eventually you'll get the results that you're trying to go for. And sometimes you do have to compromise because it's a big world out there. It's not just about farmers. So people that are protesting, I understand why they're doing it and it's their right to peacefully protest in this country. And thank God we live in a country that can do that. But I think we also need to remember that the public view was that the public have got a really high opinion of us and let's not damage science, let's work on that, Let's build on that, Let's use that in support of the industry and in support of us as an organization going forward. And just be mindful that we need to listen to our members say and we need to have an open conversation with our members as well. I don't think there's a quick fix to any of this. I think it's an ongoing process. In the spotlight at the moment has been a lot on on tenant farmers, particularly in Cumbria. We heard Tim Farron speaking in the House of Commons, Liberal Democrat MP he refers to as a Lakeland clearance happening in terms of the schemes and tenants being ticked off or being enticed into the schemes, not knowing what they're signing up for as a tenant farmer, you know, you don't see us, your landlord is Yorkshire Water, we've talked about it already. But in terms of that kind of positive relationship that you've built with them, how did you do that and what are your thoughts on what's going on in Cumbria? So the results of our own relationship here, it didn't happen overnight. It was a 20 years. It's been a 20 year relationship. Yeah, and it started off quiet. Hello, how are you? This is what we do. This is what we'd like to do. Well, does that sound like it? This is again, it's a slow burn thing, isn't a sort thing that grows slowly, slowly, but slowly but surely. You build that relationship of trust. And I'm absolutely certain that that isn't always the case with some people and some landlord tense relationships. But I think you've got to give it a go because don't be the one that just shuts the door straight away. Just try, because it's very hard when somebody puts a smile on the face and they're trying to be positive. Totally shut the door on some of that. So give it a go. I think there's lots going on in the tenant sector at the moment, and I think there are some bad practices going on in the tenant sector. And any member that's having Bobcats who stood to them, we need to know about it because we will use that as evidence to go and have those conversations. So we do need to know about it because when we put this forward to the Farming Minister, he's saying he wants to see the evidence absolute, but there is real fear and consternation to talk. I completely get that and I respect that completely. Honestly, I get that. But if we can get information and protect that member and we will do that in some way or form, we will find a way. Because it goes back to what I was saying earlier on about, you know, this this our messages come from real lives. That is the beauty of what we do. We can actually use people's true life stories to demonstrate what it is that we mean when we say what we say. And if we can use those stories to actually say what you've got to listen to is because this is what is happening, then we need to know. And I think any bad practice that's going on anywhere in this tenancy sector deserves to be called out. It's not right. It is not right. So simple as that. So it really is going back to that conversation and listening to people again, it's all about people. Everything we do is about people. And if we can articulate what's really happening out there on farms right now, then that will get our message across far faster and hopefully will reap better results. Do you think there is a need to have an active farmer tests for the schemes? Personally? Yeah. Yeah, I do. I think it's a very difficult one to prove though. And that's the problem. Yeah. That's why the active farmer test is not an easy one. What are you saying? What do you mean by that? Because they define that and that's why we keep talking about this active farmer all the time. It's an ongoing conversation, isn't it? Because how do you define what that is? Yeah, something that's really interesting here is obviously with your landlord, the position of your farm environment is a key, a key focus here on the way you run your farm business summit you're very passionate about and getting that balance between food production and environment is a constant conversation that everyone is having. Do you feel the union's position at the moment on food, the environment, food production, environment is right, or do you feel like we need to be pushing the environment a little bit more? I'm just interested kind of from your take on your farm here, do you think there is enough focus on environment or is it gone that either way? Just interested. I don't think there is a there's a this is I don't I know it's a balance I think yeah I think to me is you can't do both and without a doubt you can do both. We do it here. Yeah. We've demonstrated we can do it here. And I've been to the farms where you can do both. And actually the vast majority of farmers are doing environmental work on their farm. Anyway. These are just what they do and what they've always done. And some of those farmers are doing very good work and not be rewarded for it. Yeah. So for me it's not either all. It's about a blend of the two together and it's about learning new skills potentially. The fact is that it seems to me we're all going to have to produce more and less because everybody wants land, whether it's infrastructure work, whether it's environmental work, whether it's food production. Everybody wants land. And we are only a small island. We're quite busy. It's quite busy islands. So there's a lot of things going on all at once. And it's about finding a balance between the two. And the only way you find a balance is by having something like the NFU sat at that table in those really boring stuff. Sometimes say, Excuse me, can I just remind you of this people? We have farmers actually running a business on that land that you want and you might want to do that as well. So can we have a conversation about how we can make all that work together? And that's why it's important that we are that. Why do you think there is that slow uptake on OSFI at the moment? I think there's a I think this confusion behind SFI when I talk to people, it's almost like the way to move if you're a machine is as an industry. We've had goalposts, we've had quite clear goalposts for a long number of years, for decades. When you've got clear goalposts, you know, we're really dug in and I think those goalposts have been a bit blurred and then they've kept moving. And it's almost like people go, Well, I'll just wait until it's finished. But when he's not, yeah, nobody knows. And I think that's what's going on at the moment. I mean, I think uptake has increased, you know, the figures are coming through, uptake is definitely increased. More and more farmers are doing needs and I hope they're doing it for the right reasons. That's what matters. It's got to be for the right reasons. In terms of the next generation of farmers, you know, that's something you really value and you want to make sure there's a future for your children on the farm. What more can be done by it, but by government policy too, to just ensure that there is that sustainable future that's cracking a big. AG There is a big, big question, but it's not really sure how. But essentially the sustainable farming incentive, you know, that is the future of farming. I know and there should be opportunities for new entrants to that to get into that. The absolute should be interest for people to get into that. And it's about how I at the moment it's the cards because there were previously passed claimants which seems a bit daft if you ask me, and I guess it goes back to that farmers thing again as well. And it also goes back to how do we get the next generation on to found that haven't been farmers before as well. It's not just the ones that are already there, it's how do we get the new ones in because often don't shoot we everybody, but often those are the ones that are coming with any bias and they just come with a clear business model and they just go for it. But those people from a non farming background rely on the terminals. I know, I know they do. I know. And that's the crazy situation we find ourselves doing, whether it's a tenant farm, whether it's a contract farm with a shared farm. And I do think there needs to be we need to learn from others around the world. I've actually done this sort of thing, all that and the things out there are the models that we can mirror or tailor to the needs of this country moving forward, because I can see a situation where farms just get bigger and bigger and bigger. And then if we take it back to the family elements of eight and the family farming business, we are all alone in businesses. Remember, it's how do those farming family businesses manage to survive that? What are they doing to show that they can actually pay the next generation that's coming through an adequate wage, you know, a living wage, which means that they themselves can actually live their life. So it's a huge conundrum. And I'm not sure at the moments maybe we're just picking it up and really running with it. But I think there's I do think there's opportunities there, but I think we need to make sure that the right opportunities and I think we've got a lot to learn from this. Part of your business is an upland farm. Yeah. In recent weeks and months there's been a lot of criticism in terms of the support available from farms and on its long term survival and whether this government actually understands what upland farms are all about and what they can offer. Do you think At the moment it does, and what more work needs to be done to ensure that they are valued? I think upland farms are interesting in their own right. You know, one or two farm is the same as another upland farm. I'm here in the south Pennines and we farm in an area which is seen by millions every single day. Yet it's not classified as special enough to protect. Yeah, it's a triple-A side, it's a special area of conservation. So I think you country uplands the same. I think they're all very, very different and there's a lot of heritage to sit behind those allotments as well, which sometimes we forget in all this we concentrate on the agricultural side of things, the environment side of things, the food production. But we do often talk about the heritage elements of eggs, which to me shouldn't come from an agricultural project. That's a different that's a social thing, completely different in my opinion. So if you want to protect the heritage of that area, then you need to think about it very differently. Not from the agricultural budget. Don't don't take it from there. You know, that's for something else. And personally, from an up close point of view, we haven't gone into a new stewardship agreement because it was to not show SFI through SFI that we could draw down on our farm here is very minimal because we've actually done a really good job environmentally the last 20 years. So I now feel like we're being penalized for the good work that we've done over the last 20 years. So we've rolled over our hedge less here, which means there isn't any capital work going on. So we're in a no man's land for a while, but we've done that to protect ourselves because the environmental work is part of our cash flow and that will be exactly the same. And all the other plant farms I've been involved involved. Environmental stewardship is a huge element of their cash flow and to go and get that sort of cash flow in by increasing production units would be exceptionally hard and lots of open farms, especially when you're nine times out of ten, those upland farms are being run by the best number of people, goes back to Heritage again. So I think the current tough thing for me personally or no plans needs to be looked at. It needs to think about different types of options. And I also really interested to see what happens next with countryside stewardship, you know, landscape scale, change things and that's when it gets really interesting. That's what I think the will be opportunities, but I'm disappointed it's taken so long to even start thinking about it. So I've asked all of his holdings members is it's very easy to talk about strengths, but what do you think is your weakness? talk to me and my weaknesses. I have many, many weaknesses. Of course I do. Human. And and you know, if would be really honest, then I've got a lot to learn in this role. I've got a huge amount of things that I need to learn. And what I would say to the members is educate me, teach me. I want to learn. I want to do a good job for you. So my weakness there is my my lack of knowledge in certain areas of the industry. But I will do my best. I will learn that's what it's all about. And I wish to God that photographic memory, because I meet so many people, I'm learned so many things and I wish to kill again, but instead have to write notes, have to not have to know. And in terms of what you want to be known for, I think I know the answer to those. But what do you want to be known for by the members? What kind of skills? Personality? What do you want to be known for? I would like to be known for somebody who's approachable, who they believe in, the trust. I'm not somebody that tries a damndest for them. And in terms of the future of the of the aquaculture industry, where do you see it? I see it really, really exciting. But let's not kid anybody going to be a fraud and there's going to be winners and losers like there is in life in everything that we do. And for me it's about allowing everybody the opportunity to do whatever they think is right for their business and do it with dignity, I think. Thank you so much for your Thank you. That was Rachel Harlow, the newly elected NFU vice president, who will no doubt be a powerful voice as the union navigates some unprecedented changes within the agricultural industry. That's it for this week's podcast. Please do listen out for next week's guest and don't forget to keep up to date with the latest in the industry at Farmers Guardian dot com. Goodbye.