In this week's episode of the Farmers Guardian podcast, online editor, Emily Ashworth, speaks to the first ever recipients of the Kaleb Cooper Bursary, which aims to support students from non-farming backgrounds in association with the Royal Agricultural University. Caitlyn Bartlett and Caitlin Oxton are both currently studying and are hoping to make the most of Kaleb's support, especially the on-farm placement with him.
In this week's episode of the Farmers Guardian podcast, online editor, Emily Ashworth, speaks to the first ever recipients of the Kaleb Cooper Bursary, which aims to support students from non-farming backgrounds in association with the Royal Agricultural University. Caitlyn Bartlett and Caitlin Oxton are both currently studying and are hoping to make the most of Kaleb's support, especially the on-farm placement with him.
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In this episode of The Farmer's Got podcast, I speak to the two students who are both very confusingly called Caitlyn about their farming careers and what it feels like to be the first recipients of the Caleb Cooper bursary. Let's just talk a little bit about your backgrounds and how you kind of have ended up where you are now and what you're studying. Yeah, So I kind of it's all started for me. I'm not from a farming family, so I've got no agricultural background. So I when it came to choosing whether I want to be kind of A-levels or sixth form at school messing around bullets, I didn't think I was kind of the right option for me. So I had a look at what college courses were about and my nearest one shots were in Bedfordshire, so I looked at courses. Then and so I thought, you know, this kind of suits me the most. So I went to that kind of amazing two years there. And then following that kind of understood that this is the industry I wanted to kind of carry on my career. And so that's when I applied for unions. So I so again. Just so I just out of interest before and Caitlyn tells her story. Were you always encouraged to go down a following path because you wanted to or what kind of obstacles put in your way? I'd say my parents were all very outdoorsy family, so we always had a little connection kind of countryside life, I guess you could call it, but never any farming. My parents smoked it, but they could see that it was kind of a great passion about that. And they kind of gave me a take out the bomb. And yeah, so they've been really great, but I haven't. I mean, there's a few obstacles you get coming into the industry with and not ego with no previous knowledge, whereas some people who do have that background, they already know what they're doing. So it kind of it's like a bit of a catch up game trying to, you know, get the basic knowledge and then once once you've got that you can, then it's just that first step of getting to know everything I found to be the hardest kind of thing. Everything out you like, my God, I did that. But so it's so fine. It's yeah, If you've got the right people around you, it's not a bad thing. It's a. Cool. Thank you. And what about you, Caitlyn? And similar I like I was sort of when I was at school, I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I left. And I was about 15, and that was a job, the right that was offering on a poultry farm. So awful. Awful. I'll take that. I'll have a go. It'll be a bit of fun. And then I realized I quite enjoy that. And then I started looking at what different options, what I off to school and I chose college and I went to Rhizome and I did a I think it was an extended diploma in agriculture. I think it was. And then obviously after that, I then needed to decide what I was going to do with that. So then it was I see starting to look at university courses and course I've decided to sort of watch out my passions more and the arable side of that side. I sort of looked at what courses were available and what were the best ones out there to get me to that and go. Obviously, yes, Not coming from some background is hard. I think if you've just got that drive, you can pick it up. It just take a bit longer because obviously you're at a disadvantage because of the height. And so some of them have got a lot of knowledge from simply growing up for their parents and stuff from farms. I sometimes think as well, like if you've never been in the farming industry could actually appeal. I will talk talking a whole new different language. So even that is just a barrier in terms of, you know, understanding the terminology and things like that. But what about, I mean, the conversation that I have a lot. Do we think that if you had access to this in primary school, in high school, that would have connectivity along a bit as well? Because there's, you know, barely nothing in terms of education and. Yeah. No, I really agree. Actually. I think I heard about kind of I got absolutely zero education on farming and about school all the way through is what I grew up saw. And then I got to kind of be around GCSE and there's nothing you don't get to about why food comes from. You can talk about farming. So if I wasn't to decide to go to college, I probably wouldn't. Yeah, wouldn't have a pay there. I thought I was having it. So there's nothing. Yeah. No I, and I think there's one farm in my area that have or did have a little like on the school smallholding farm and I think that's brilliant that, that's when someone I have a connection with at home. She did like I think it was a level two you could do at school alongside in agriculture. So that's kind of a little step up. Yeah, you could find about it, but I just didn't have any of that. Personally. I think if you're not like a confident person either, you could quite easily be think quite insular about it and think in your head. I really don't want to say that this is the route that I want to go down. So unless you've got that confidence to do it as well, and you know what? Missing a whole chunk of people, which is such a shame. Yeah. Okay. Do you want to just tell me about where you are now? What you studied and kind of what you know, what's going to be the next step for you guys. And then we'll move on to talk about the bursary. Yeah, I studying applied for management and so that's three across to me and everyone is great. So I, I'm in my second year, I've got one more year left. So I'm kind of at the moment I'm just kind of guy I've got a job at home that I go back to in summer and that's on a diary now. So that kind of keeps them on is kind of relevant. And I kind of the things that obviously I've got my placement with Caleb and then kind of post that I need to kind of look at that and graduate schemes about that kind of thing to help me get into the section I want to get in. Okay, cool. What about you, Caitlin? Yes, I'm doing a B.S. in just agriculture is a four year course again. Okay. I'm only in my last year. And again, I'm say, my placement also in my second year with up. But I have started looking at the graduate schemes that people have in place. What different companies offer to llama help for that because obviously you get to speak to them different companies and I can explain things more and that's what Hutchinsons I do a scheme that when you lay you can apply is three years and they pay for you. So your basis in your qualification, but you're also on the job line. AG Yeah, whilst you're also learning the fare as well. So yeah, because I see I will look to the farm management, but they didn't actually offer the course. They said, okay, I think my, my, yeah, gosh, yeah. And then they're bringing it back this September funnily enough. You really have. Yeah. So there was a lot of is that were all there in my course. I mean they all want to do economy. So the for management is I've not left out massively but for those who are sat on farm on. Yeah they lost essentially lost out on. And okay let's talk about the base with them because obviously this is you know it's quite a huge thing and you know to come across anybody who hasn't heard of Caleb these days you probably in a minority. So one, you know, what was the what were your thoughts when this became available? And, you know, what's the process? What do you want to get out of it? Because this could give you both a step up, couldn't it? Massively, Yeah. Yeah. And so when I saw I, I didn't actually I people have been talking about I was 100% sure of what that set of criteria was. So I had that. And that's kind of aimed at all of through this. Again. Yeah, I applied and I was going to set it back because a lot people talking about it, so I wasn't sure if I'd even make out like that. Probably to be semi apply for it. But I said to do it anyway. And then very luckily I did and I guess Yeah, but I just, yeah, I was really great and I did. I'm especially it can be quite daunting if you don't have that support and it just gives you the extra contacts that I think is great. And did you have specific ideas of how you wanted to make this work for you? What did you want to get out of it? Yes, that's me. I'm kind of starting now to set myself up the post uni, so I need to kind of get my head around what I'm doing, who I need to know. And so it's all about that. And I think adding those contacts with kind of himself, his associates, I think is really good to help out if you ever need anyone else's help your future. I think you always get back to them. I think, yeah, it's just great, the exposure as well. And what about you, Caitlin? Did you have specific ideas of how you wanted to kind of utilize this opportunity? Yes, I was very similar. I always saw it as extra exposure. I'm not coming from a background. Yes, I have contacts and that is more from getting the opportunity off someone could ever go and then obviously from him he provided references in five contacts. But obviously the mole is a contacts based industry, is who you know, which doesn't massively help with employment and I think you're better off getting prepared earlier on. So yeah, so many of my staff share. But on looking, looking to when I leave uni because I don't want to get to my last year. God, I've got nowhere to go. Yeah, it's such an amazing opportunity that he's given us both. And it's the what? The workplace, the how. Gaining knowledge. Because we can do it with himself, his industry partners. And so that will help not open doors because I might be able to do something that I wouldn't normally bounce to a different job or a different section of the industry. And can we just talk a little bit about, you know, when you say work placement with Caleb, what will that entails? You're both going to work alongside him For what? For what amount of time? What How will that look? Yes. So I'm modernism actually is just on March. Yeah, Yeah. Watch that perfectly. And so we're just talking with him and his team just kind of finalizing what season for me. I hit it off as, you know, work with him with what this industry part is. It's kind of tailored to what you want. So they're thinking about you and me. It'd be great to work on that kind of progress. I think you're going to split mine and do kind of some with Caleb and some more like on the consultancy and kind of agronomy, right? So that'll be someone who's previously in that kind of thing. And so they'll help us get into that with contact. So yeah, I'm kind of splitting mine. I think it's I have my course have a compulsory 15 week placement, so on that kind of facet summary you can do. Yeah. 15 weeks or you can do it. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously my class doesn't have a year, so I'm, I'm not going to do that. Yeah. Okay. And then you, you, you mentioned before you're interested in agronomy too. Yeah. Yeah. So my obviously my time, my placement will come around March next year. So I, I'll be on a compulsory period. Obviously I would a take half of it or chunk Vit with Caleb and then the of a chunk of it talking to people within the industry already. My best thing would be to get some experience in the field. Women are going to mess. So obviously I would try and title of that placement to be with one of his industry partners within the agronomy section. Yeah. Because obviously it's quite hard to get any work experience with an economist. There's not many farms that do it, you know, there's not many firms that will have you shadow of an but obviously if you don't actually know enough about the industry and then you've actually become one in your own, I don't want a document state us it's a bit late at that point. Yeah. So yeah, I would try and I think all day of how many weeks is exactly but I would do a chunk with Caleb himself and then a chunk with somebody else within the economy, such like sector. I think what's nice about this as well is that and one of the biggest things that's always stuck with me in terms of careers in farming is that and all the people need to be able to see the success, success stories of other people like them in the industry. So I know that Caleb is obviously in terms of Clarkson's farm, that happened quite surprisingly, and how, you know, his profile blew up. But then to be able to transfer that to you guys and you to be successful in your career and coming from the backgrounds, kids coming up through school to be able to see those success stories, it's really important for for our industry. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. What about then, you both from no knock backgrounds, what's the biggest thing that you've learned as students and people coming into the industry since since she began? Is there anything that surprised you? Have your interest changed? What is it? What would that be? So for me, I'm glad that I'm I think communication is probably the biggest thing on the farm. Doesn't no matter what size. And there's always going to be a team. So you always need to be talking to each other to make sure that things go to room. And if something does, you then goes on to go to. And another thing yet. So when I kind of went into agriculture, I found that I don't know, this is kind of the same with me. Livestock was the easiest thing to start with because at college they had a beef, had and so kind of alongside that I went, then got my first job on a baking sheet farm, and then the next one was the last. And now I'm Darren Arable, but I have kind a bit more. They are besides slightly still enjoy working with cows and I love it and I'm really lucky that I get to see both. But I think if you're starting out, I think it was actually quite tricky to get into because you're not taught everything about attractive. You have to drive the ones you college has, but that all kinds of practice and you can't practice unless you're there, whereas last that you can kind of get the kind of footwork ready and then apply that. Whereas our budget is about making those mistakes and about learning from them that makes sense. Yeah, I think that's quite a huge one actually, because, you know, you are allowed to make mistakes. Not me. Yeah, Yeah. What about you, Caitlyn? Yeah, I you. Everything getting your foot in the door, the livestock side of it. Surprisingly, it's definitely in the poultry industry. It's female dominated, obviously, at one stage agriculture is a male dominated. There are more women. And all the company that I worked for was quite a large company, and we had very few male members of staff. It was actually more female dominated, which was quite surprising but also reassuring. And then obviously I got two years ago, I got my first job on Arable Farm. Luckily the boss I, the guy who I worked for was Brady Brady on something, and he literally taught me from the basics and without him I wouldn't have got my job on mice. I did a season and maximize and then this season just gone. I was on a it was a mix. It was mixed cereals and size is what we did last summer. And again, I'd never worked on potatoes, but because of my good references, my boss, he taught me from scratch all about the science of like bad to learn. And I think our farm definitely is hard. But I don't think without the livestock side of that I would have probably got any arable farming jobs. But since moving onto an arable farm, I've decided that livestock is definitely, you know, more. I think arable is a lot more of a pleasant job and as it just seems to be. So I've decided that I've lost my passions more in the plant side of things and you know how we're developing all of these new crops and, you know, I'm the boss I work for. He was trialing like hybrid barley. Yeah. So instead of having your standard two rows, he had six and that's where I saw my interests grow in the crops side of it, more than the livestock. So those are really interesting, I think, because sort of going off what you said, you said a couple of things there that I could have all of the conversations about, but we don't have enough time. And. You know, how do we then, you know, if you were in school or you're a student at high school, how do we ever say to somebody that, you know, if you were in school and told somebody all that sort of scientific and what you're doing on farm, no one will ever know. Now, how do we and I mean, the phrase breaking the stereotype is, you know, it sounds cliche, doesn't it, because it's 20, 24. Like what? What more do we need to do? Do we need to do more through social media? And is it not down to us anymore? We need to just keep doing what we're doing. But is it down to, you know, high level people in government kind of filtering that down to educational systems? Yeah. How how on earth do we get young people to know that we are not just stood in a field? Yeah, I think I'm sorry. I was going to say, I don't know if you feel the same though, but we've got the women and I think we've all done pretty well in the last couple of years to actually promote the kind of views at the same. But I don't feel like it's is hard to get into the sector. That's what it was a year ago. Yeah. And I think part of it is, you know, going and experiencing doing things and people are seeing you actively do that and but as well, I think, you know, some of it is out of our control, too, as you said, Emily, I think there is a degree of not issues, but I think more needs to be done kind of introducing it to the lower levels of education, saying school. I think that obviously they're not going to go into detail. We do because we're primarily studying that. Yeah, a brief kind of overview of what it is or why it comes from, I think what must be how people understand it. And then that might stop your interest and people might want to get into it, which is that my college comes along, I think, yeah, definitely getting into a school curriculum would massively help and even. You know, just giving if you're finishing, you know, if you're an 11 and you're looking at colleges and and you know, you're always looking at the steps further ahead, if you were even just given the opportunity to know that it was our best colleges and universities out there as well, even that's kind of tiny steppingstone because I don't necessarily think that happens either. So that would be interesting to actually look into. And what do you both see as your biggest challenges going forwards then? Would that be to kind of secure a job in the area that, you know, really want to get into? Or would it be finding more funding? What what, what what is your biggest challenges? I think personally for me is probably would be funding will go into because there's actually so many things that go into my culture the whole it was impossible to decide on the spot what you're going to do which is I think what placement really helps because you can write something. It's not for you to do it. So I think kind of try another way. My city where I think people that come from foreign backgrounds. Right. I'm taking your phone, so I need to have it all into the hands of people you know might not want to take it. So I'm going to something slightly different, but to me, I think is kind of understanding what I want to do and how I can get into it and develop that role. What about you, Caitlin? You're I think, some similar I think my biggest thing is to secure the job or say in some ways very fortunate. Obviously I'm based in Lincolnshire. Possibly you could say it's the biggest farming county in the UK. It seems to be from everything around that revolves around farms. Yes, I'm obviously massively arable based as well, so I think to me it would be to use the boss right in the work placement opportunities to gain the contacts and then secure well my next steps up the uni. Obviously I know it's been a mess, I've got a, you know, game on basis of my qualifications. I can't do that until I've had enough work experience with an agronomist. Yes, I didn't quite. Yeah, it is tough. I think that's one of the things this as well. And I said to Hutchinson as well to see how choosing a llama, if you want people to go into an industry but you don't have any, they don't have an opportunity to gain experience, it's very hard to get these people coming in the door and to, you know, to interest people. We were always going to need an agronomist. Quite fundamentally, it's the basis of crop production. Yeah, but if you can't get them in the door because it's really quite hot, I mean, you've got to do, you've got to have experience. And if people can't buy off your experience, how are you going to get it? Yeah, yeah. Just out of interest, obviously. You mentioned your llama as it Did you see the career zone at llama? No, I wasn't there for I wasn't there for that long. I see Peter coming in. I wasn't that. No, I don't think I went. I thought it was just really interesting this year because for the first time ever, we had students from urban backgrounds brought to llama so that they could talk about, you know, go around the exhibitors and talk to them and and just kind of get a flavor really of I mean, only a very little flavor. But yeah, kind. Of the a great setting to bring kids into. So I just wondered if you'd if you've been there in those specific days. And. Okay let's finish up on perhaps throwing a little bit of a curveball, you know, but as young people in the industry, what do you both see as the industry's biggest hurdles going forwards? Because if you look back on the last, I don't know, even two years, how much has changed? It is quite insane to think about it. And as an industry we're quite unique in the fact that we are at the mercy of a lot of other people in terms of regulations and policies and funding. So what do you as a next generation view as our biggest hurdles going forwards, who want to. Start not one first? Well, I don't mind. Amazing, but I think for me it would be understanding the bottom line. Farming on its name wouldn't survive. I'm going for that even more because if I actually did an assignment where I'm actually open plan and we have to go into the financial details and everything, I'd be once we done all that, we realized, you know, if we just had our arguments present, it wouldn't survive. And that's the same as other people, actually. So I think diversification and seeing what else you can do, is that what you wanted to get more back? Because the markets are so unpredictable at the moment. I think it just can't solely rely on one thing and it's finding other options there are and how you can walk in and to get the most kind of, well, the best outcome you had. Yeah, that's the way I love this question. I love the answers because I always think as well. Isn't it a weird way of thinking that, you know, you if you want to farm, you can actually just make a living. Not many people can just make a living from farming. So and yeah, I always find that quite, quite an interesting conversation. What about you, Caitlin? I think personally, I think the biggest challenge for the industry at the moment is probably public. For some reason the industry as a whole seems to get bad publicity and unfortunately there's been things in the past couple of years around dairy that's been filmed and released onto TV and it doesn't how what people view as farming, you know, sadly and it's get said a lot but everyone is a farmer for eight times and I and I think because we get all this high, I think we've got a little bit more support and people got a little bit more appreciation of around why you know, why why should we pay farmers more for what they produce? Why shouldn't the supermarkets make as much money that, you know, milk subprime one Why are we paying farmers pennies when supermarkets are making massive profit margins? It's not the supermarket that's rare in the cattle, you know, that's going through all the ITV tested and everything else. They're simply selling out. And that's something that quite irritates me is that all these other people make money and yet the actual produce that we couldn't be without is not actually making that much money. And like you said, you can't anymore. And not a lot of farmers can just have an arable enterprise with no diversification because they can't, you know, with all the costs and everything, it's not possible. And it shouldn't be like, you know, years and years ago it was little farms and everyone, you know, tried to persuade themselves. And I think appropriate viewpoint is definitely on government. And, you know, the legislation they bring in. And I think it's a negative outlook that they put on farmers. That doesn't how. Yeah. Do you feel like you are in a position to be able to help explain that to other people? But it's a very hard and I think I would say we live in a society where everyone has an opinion, yet sadly, some people don't want to listen to people's opinions. Maybe so. I think that's probably quite tricky. But I think like Kate and said, if they brought it, if they brought farming and agriculture into like curriculums, it would massively open up doors for people, you know, children could see where their food comes from and actually get a good basis knowledge that it's not all negative. Yeah, and would probably get more people into the industry. So I think it's about that conversation, isn't it as well? Like we're not asking people to change their minds on everything that they think. It's just about being able to have sensible and open discussions, isn't it? So I think in an educational setting you would be able to kind of help that help those conversations thrive and and that's only a good thing, isn't it? Let's end on a positive then. What is the one thing that you most looking forward to in the next year? your question. I'm probably graduating, I suppose, in the next academic year. I don't know. I think you're saying, well, kind of presents itself in how what we're doing now can develop and what what everything ends up being, because you just don't know how you respond to things. And I think it's quite exciting about you. Caitlin So I mean, of course. So whatever you say, I suppose for this coming upcoming year, I would say is probably the placement kind of and saying whether or not after I've done that, however, I still feel the same about what I want to go. And here, yeah, you know, I'm not completely changed. I might. Well, if you do that, you. Have to let us know. no. So we live in farming scale. Different section of market for animals. Yeah. Yeah. What a fantastic opportunity for both of Caitlin's. I'm sure we can catch up with them both after their placement with Caleb himself to see how they've both got on. That's it for the podcast this week. But head over to the farm's gardening website for lots of fantastic content from our special career supplement this week. Thanks for listening, but bye bye for now.