Overcoming grief to raise mental health awareness in farming - Andy and Lynda Eadon on Mind Your Head Week

This week’s podcast is a very special insight into mental health in farming. This week marks the Farm Safety Foundation’s Mind Your Head campaign - an initiative to promote mental health as the biggest hidden problem facing farmers today.

So our guests for the podcast are two of the most inspirational people I have had the pleasure of interviewing. They are none other than Warwickshire based farmers Andy and Lynda Eadon. If you haven’t heard of Andy and Lynda’s story, it is a really upsetting journey through pain, grief, tragedy and agony. Their son Leonard Eadon, died on January 1 2022 at the age of 22. Leonard, or Len, had taken his own life.

His death had shocked the farming community and continues to have reverberations by those who knew and loved him dearly. The Office for National Statistics said 36 farming and agricultural workers in England and Wales had taken their lives during 2021.

Leonard was a young man who had the world at his feet - he was kind, generous, thoughtful and intelligent -  but unfortunately he felt he could no longer keep living.

I could never comprehend the pain Andy and Lynda have endured since Leonard’s death.

It is something they have had to relieve time and time again. 

Losing a child must be one of the most profound and deeply upsetting experiences a human could experience. 

Most people experiencing grief on this scale could have chosen to isolate themselves, to never think, to never hear, and to never discuss the pain of what they went through after losing their son.

But the work Andy and Lynda have achieved to overcome their grief, to raise awareness of mental health in both young and old farmers, as well as relieving that pain time and again to ensure no other family has to deal with its costly consequences has quite frankly moved many to tears.

Channeling their own suffering and heartache to connect with farmers - those who have and have not experienced something similar - and to save lives in the process is truly remarkable.

At the time of recording this podcast on February 13 2024, Andy and Lynda Eadon have helped to raise over £170,000 for mental health charities including the Farming Community Network, The Farm Safety Foundation (also known as Yellow Wellies) and Papyrus - a charity for the prevention of young suicide in the UK. An incredible achievement.

They also set up Len’s Light - a vision for mental health and the issues affecting farmers and how to positively overcome those feelings - which continues to be a ray of light in the goodness of farmers in the face of adversity. 
You might even remember their epic tractor relay tour from John O’Groats to Lands End - a 2,000 mile journey passing through communities in Scotland, Wales and England to ensure the message of positive mental health remains a constant and meaningful message. 

As people, they are always on the move and planning their next step - whether that be discussing mental health with politicians or visiting school children about the importance of maintaining healthy well-being.

To have gone through the loss they have, but to continue helping others is testament to their character and nature. They are wonderful people. 

And at a time when farmers are facing increased pressure to deliver not only for their business, but for the environment and food production, those working in the industry will undoubtedly face the weight and challenge that brings.

Working seven days a week, sometimes for over 15 hours, with very little contact in what can be one of the loneliest professions.

Andy and Lynda are doing all they can to keep the message

They are hosting several Big Farming tea breaks across the UK to get farmers together to have positive conversations about their health and wellbeing.

Enjoy the podcast as they discuss the power of conversation and mental health in farming.

Transcript

0:05

Hello, everybody. I'm Chris Bradford, a reporter at the Farmer's Garden. The Foreign produced this week's podcast. I just wanted to quickly warn that this podcast does contain some very upsetting themes, mainly surrounding suicide in the farming community. In order to tell these meaningful stories, we need to end some very challenging and difficult places in the hope that we can promote positive change in the agricultural community. Thank you. All right, let's begin. This week's podcast is a very special insight into mental health and farming. This week marks the Farm Safety Foundation's Mind Your Head Campaign, an annual initiative to promote mental health as the biggest hidden problem facing farmers today. Our guests for this podcast are two of the most inspirational people I've had the pleasure of both meeting and interviewing. They are none other than Warwickshire based farmers Andy and Linda Reid. And if you haven't heard of Andy and Linda story, it's a really upsetting journey through pain, grief, tragedy and agony. Their son, Leonard Eden, died on January 1st, 20, 22. It was only 22 at the time. Leonard Allan had suddenly taken his own life. His death had shocked the farming community and still continues to have reverberations by those who knew and loved him dearly. The Office for National Statistics said 36 farming and agricultural workers in England and Wales had taken their lives during 2021 alone. Leonard was a young man who had the world at his feet. He was kind, generous, thoughtful and intelligent. But unfortunately he felt he could no longer killer then. I could never comprehend the pain Andy and Linda have endured since Leonard's death with a young man that was destined to become a farmer and become one of the next leading young people to lead our industry. It's truly heartbreaking and very sad, and it's something that they've had to relive over and over again. Losing a child must be one of the most profound and deeply upsetting experiences a human could face. Most people experiencing grief on this scale could have chosen to isolate themselves, to never think, to never hear, and to never discuss the pain of what they went through after losing their son or daughter. But the work Andy and Linda achieved to overcome their grief, to raise awareness of mental health in both young and old farmers. As well as reliving that pain time and time again is testament to them as people because they are trying to ensure that no other family, no friend, has to deal with the costs, the consequences of suicide, which has quite frankly moved many to tears. But the work Andy and Linda have achieved to overcome their grief, to raise awareness of mental health in both funeral farmers, as well as reliving that pain time and time again, is testament to them as people as are trying to ensure that no other family all know of. A friend has to deal with the costs, the consequences of suicide, which is quite frankly moved many to tears, channeling, channeling their own suffering and heartache to connect with farmers. Those who of those who have not experienced something similar in the process and to save countless lives in the process is truly remarkable. At the time of recording this podcast on February the 13th, 2024, Andy and Linda Eden have helped raise over£170,000 for mental health charities, including the farming community network, the Farm Safety Foundation, which you may also knows yellow wellies and papyrus, a charity for the prevention of young suicide in the UK, which is an incredible achievement. They also set out lens light, which is a vision for mental health and the issues affecting farmers and how to positively overcome those feelings, which is the embodiment of all their work to date. And it continues to be a ray of light in the goodness of farmers who are facing adversity day in, day out. You might even remember their epic truck to relay to a friend journey to longs and a 2000 mile journey passing through communities in Scotland, Wales and England to ensure the message of positive mental health remains a constant and meaningful message. As people, they are always on the move and planning their next step, whether that be discussing mental health with politics, tunes of visiting schoolchildren about the importance of maintaining healthy wellbeing. To have gone through the loss they have put to continue helping others is testament to their character and nurture. They are wonderful people and at that time, when farmers are facing increased pressure to deliver not only for their businesses but for the environment and food production, those working in the industry at the moment will undoubtedly face the weight and challenge that brings. Farmers are often working seven days a week, mainly over 15 hours, and to have very little contact with others in what can be on the loneliest professions in the UK. Andy and Linda are doing all that. They come to keep raising the message of mental health and it is really, truly humbling what they are trying to do to help so many people dealing with mental health and farming. They are hosting several big farm and tea breaks across the UK this week in the hope of getting farmers together to have positive conversations about their own health and wellbeing. That's enough for me, so enjoy the podcast as they discuss the power of conversation on its connection with mental health and farming. So it's an absolute pleasure to welcome Andrew and Linda Ayton onto the Farmer's Gardening podcast. I'm Andy. Linda, pleasure to be with you in your lovely home in Warwickshire. Plus, it's a happy. Yeah, we're pleased to see you. Excellent. So, Linda, would you just give give us a little introduction into your background. Is that you from Cornwall Originally? Yeah, absolutely. I was born in Cornwall more years ago than I care to mention. And not from a farming background at all. My father was actually in the health service as a biochemist and did move away from there up to East Anglia when I was 13. Due to that stop. So no family background whatsoever. Ended up in my late teens, early twenties, traveling the world for two and a half years, having decided I wouldn't come back until I knew what I wanted to do and decided that was to go to through college, which was Shuttleworth, and didn't Andy and from there ended up at the Royal Agricultural Society, hence I in the Midlands and have never left. Andy Yeah, well, it was the case with myself. It was always been on the family farm and basically I started farming when I was at the problem and it's a case of always little farm and we are only a small farm, predominantly livestock, and obviously I need to secondary income. And I started doing an old research in Scotland of sheep, which I've been very lucky. It managed to take me across to New Zealand and a few seasons in New Zealand and it's been a pleasure to just be a mate on the road, meeting a lot of good farmers locally and across the country and farming has been part of, you know, your life, you farmer's life for quite a while. Is that right? IT event in the family. The family farm has been in different it's been in the family line for a while and it's a case most of the family on that side are connected with farm in any way. You told me you you always knew and always wanted to be a farmer, so. Right. Yeah. Well, basically most farm, it's in the blood. And it was a case that I always wanted to get out of school and get back to how Dad. And that was where my heart was really just working on the family farm. And like I told you earlier, at the age of five, I managed to jump the school fence and to go back to the farm because I was 40, the Rams for 18. So it's been about care and commitment from a young age and quite different to yourself. And you didn't really envisage that you'd be in the farming going down the farm? Not at all, no, I really didn't. And it literally was while I was traveling that I just felt, well, I'll just keep traveling until I know what I'm going to have to do if I succeed and and it was conversations had, funnily enough, on a beach in Thailand with various people. And I just thought, well, I'm I want to at that point make a difference. And I felt that what I wanted to do was to do work in some other countries. I always thought I'd end up working abroad, perhaps in Africa, perhaps in in Asia. And I actually did my thesis on agricultural aid and completely talked myself out of it and then thought, What do I do now? But I said, I ended up getting a job at the Agricultural Society and has been in the Midlands ever since. So we're both coming towards the 30th anniversary of your marriage. Can you tell us how and where you met? Well, we met at the Royal Agricultural Society, and I the first job I had there was as a technical assistant on the sheep unit and we wasn't working there at the time, but the shepherds then left just before lambing and Andrew had been the shepherd, so they called his help and we became friends and we remained friends meeting periodically for ten years. So it was quite a long, drawn out, well, not even a courtship then. It was just a long term friendship which developed and evolved. And we finally got married in 1996. So 27 years. Was it a case of did you did you want to ask the question before then? And is that. Well, I didn't hear what you say. I think I didn't think it would ever happen, actually, because I basically laid in house and I thought what she trying to tell me to sign. But I was quite persistent and I kept chasing and eventually she stopped. Yeah, but I can't believe he said he said that he is God, that girl needs a mental. okay, so, so Linda just described kind of you as helping out on the farm as well. What was it like to be out there physically working with you on the farm? Was it totally different? Well, not really. A lot of the jobs that I'd had up to that point were hands on farm work went abroad or in this country. So it was just naturally fed into it really. I think. Yeah, to be honest, it was delightful because we'd sort of been working at PA and when Linda started first working on the farm, the vision that to the feeling of the team effort and I would think a lot of young couples feel the same. You know, there's a lot of ambition and teamwork. I think to be able to live the farming life, you have to have a good team, you know, you have to support each other. You know, it's a 24 seven job. You know, it's it's not just a 9 to 5 job. You really do have to work as a team. You've been an excellent partnership ever since. Well, hopefully. What is it that you both love and impart and what are your kind of passions for farming? Why? Why do you look at the industry as much as you do? It's as much the people as a lot of people will know. Unfortunately, just over two years ago, we lost a son to suicide. It was the only suddenly it got. And that's what brought home the importance of people in the rural community. Was I find it much easier to go. I talk to scanning customers or just general people on you within the industry. and it was desperately hard when days when I was just going down the field. it just shows the power of communication basically get in London and yeah, I'd say the same really. The people who come to the farm to help and you know, contractors, shearers, whatever or and I've worked for most of my life alongside and with scanning business and the customers that we've got out there is, is meeting, speaking people talking to them. I think that's the power the the farming community like we were we were discussing earlier. There's just so many fantastic people like yourselves and, and there's not that the power and connection of you kind of understand what people are face and the challenges that they face as well. That's the the, the power, the power of the farming community. What what kind of challenges of your to face on on the farm during during your time for that. Yeah. Which was massive at the time because when that hit a we were lambing so we'd come to the end of a selling season and we were running so all the sheep were inside and our farm is actually split by a main road. So we suddenly only had half the size of farm for turning out purposes. So that was a hard one. Plus we weren't going out doing any of the scanning, the cattle scanning, etc. so we suddenly realized how vulnerable we were, only having one source of income from one industry that was suddenly closed down on us, which made us rethink going forward what we were going to do. And we actually both diversified at that point and I was up and doing some or learning how to do upholstery at the time, my mentor teacher was pushing me to go to college and get further qualifications and I decided to take it more seriously. And now about two years later, I've been actually been teaching for 18 years and but it gave me as an income completely outside the industry, which wouldn't be affected by those unknowns. And Andrew, for a while I was and spent some time on training and then going into a landscaping business just to give us a bit of added security. So we were reliant on what for me, concerned. Yeah, I think there might be quite a lot of kind of a younger farmers as well today that, you know, maybe in the twenties just just how kind of, you know, pandemic was, you know, foot and mouth how devastating was it for farmers? It was it was I mean, we weren't touched by it in as much as we haven't got it. So we weren't seeing our animals slaughtered, but we couldn't go to any of the farms and we couldn't move any sheep. And so we had all of those restraints put on us. But seeing it on a on a daily basis and on the news and the the people who were seeing herds slaughtered and and they've got several generations of their farms have bred those cows. And you just realized that the got slaughtered was just I can't even begin to imagine what those families were going through. But saying the same for a lot of people now, it is the same as the heartbreak or bovine TB. unfortunately, the farming industry is very vulnerable and it's easy to be not. Yeah, it's just how the people arrange range who can support because farm and unfortunately there is a lot of challenges and at the moment he's trying to spin plates and if you're not careful, those plates can come crashing down quicker than you realize. Yeah. So there's always seems to be something. One thing settles them and then you know, something else that virtually, you know, there's always something on the core that you're really expecting. And so I was happy to just deal with, you know, I it just seems to be that, you know, especially, you know, today as well, farmers are facing one form pressure after the other, whether it's consequences of the weather, the TV, like you said, the challenge for fair prices as well. It it seems, you know, the farmers have got a lot to cope with. So could could we go back to, to family life And when when Leonard was born, I can imagine that was one of the most happiest days of both your lives. When when Leonard was on. Well, absolutely. Yeah, obviously it was. But the beauty was, was how Leonard developed into the character he was. Because even from a young age, he could talk to his friends in the playground or he could swish in, hold a conversation with an adult and all you feel there he became the personally was due to the influence of the grandparents on both sides. He spent a lot of time with both grandparents and I just feel the youngsters need the right men to mentors around them to develop and become cohesive, charismatic characters, really charismatic animals that he is to character and very much like souls. He got that empathy for people and he cared about people and he could not stand injustices. Yeah, no, he didn't think he could get very he would get on his soapbox quite often as a little boy was a was he marched about farming was it was a very good yeah he had farming so into and through but he had a lot of other interests as well. He loved drumming and he drummed from about the age of nine up until really the last year of his A-levels, when he knew if he wanted to get to her pregnancy, had to get his A-levels and he loved his drumming. And we never we never assumed or put any pressure on him to go into the farming industry. In fact, almost the reverse, which, you know, sky's the limit. You don't have to be tied into this. And he knew that the farm was his grandad worked at Ford for 27 years and we both did other things. So the farm wasn't going to be something that was going to be there, that was going to necessarily sustain a third generation because it didn't sustain the other two generations in its own right. So he was very realistic about that. But he was focused. He was going to heart programs and that was it. And what was he what was he going to he studied. He he graduated. He finished his degree with a21 in on the realms course rural estate and land management. Yeah. Yeah. And he was actually in the interview process for some of this as an agricultural consultant. So yeah, every Saturday looked like everything was going in his favor basically. And what we've heard since a few people have said they wouldn't go through the course if it wasn't for his importance and just coaching them on their like, Yeah, yeah. Helping them along the way. Yeah we of of camera we we did speak about kind of how much help and support that he gave to others. It was more he wanted to be the person that cheered and made people feel good about themselves. He was what a one in a million kind of character he was. He was a love and he would help anybody a number of times. We think that even the things going on, we were watching the six Nations together and someone's someone's got a problem with their vehicle. Mum. No, it's alright. You said I'll just go and help. He would help anybody in whenever if he could. You would. And basically that's what shocked the community when people found he had took his life because he was the wooden character, the party animal, the person he was for everybody else. And people just struggle to believe it. and after we lost him, friends at Harbor, Adams said, was over to us for messages for us or suitable photos from Harper Adams and after 24 I was sad that 900 responses, which just shows how many people knew him. And as I said to earlier on the track, to relay way down from John O'Groats to Land's End, there were young farmers who knew everything from Land's End to John McRoberts all the way through. Even at Westminster. A lad came to was working there to say he was at uni where Leonard So it just seemed everybody knew him and but I think it was quite special. I think that he was that like you say, Yvonne said, you know, he it conifer farming was in his blood from for myself and it was, he was amazed me because we'd be doing something on the farm or we could be Scotland. And I was so attached to Coleman and he would tell me what track it was common, the month number, and he was just tuned into every tractor engine and also age making it. But when I saw the tractor, it was a Yeah, yeah, you is is level of knowledge was phenomenal and in all sorts of things and it was for a lot of it is probably gone to YouTube because he just would it out like a sponge but we wanted to use interest in something or we wanted to know how something would work. Each went out into go to YouTube or we talked to people and it just absorbed information. It's amazing, youngster, you know that even with the thick of it all you drive, it was a case. The clutch wasn't on it. And I said, I need to get that done. Will you spend the money, Dad? I'll do it. It's not for Willie be to it. But he did. He just put a new clutch in there. Yeah, you just seemed to. If he set his mind to it. Yeah. Yeah. we. We will discuss what happened. with the incident, but could you describe what it was, what it was like to. To have gone through that as a, as a fair. And it must have been the most, the worst possible thing that would ever happen to you. It is the worst possible thing that can happen. And as I've we've touched on, it was totally unexpected and it yes, it was it was very hard to take take on board, which was why the very next day I said we've got to do something, because if this can happen to it, it happened to anybody because it was he was the last person I would have expected it to happen, to pull it because he was so grounded and he knew the people who had done it knew of more of the people, because there are an awful lot of youngsters who do do it. And you talked about it. You talk to us about it that he could never understand. He could never imagine anyone getting to that point and not thinking this is not the way out, which made it all the more hard, really, because he thought he knew people did it and he couldn't understand it. I mean, you had to sort of force. But as we done before, you know, there there are people, you know, who are struggling with mental health and they talk about it and they try and find ways around it or these people who you see are struggling. But there are also those that you don't see. And it might not be that they were particularly suffering or they thought they were particularly struggling, but something happened that was just the trigger to this one. Too many things and something just takes the mind over. And in just a few minutes they don't think they react. And that's quite scary because of how you reached those people. People believe regarding suicide, there must be a kind of mental illness before and obviously because of the circumstances I've talked to various people regarding suicide and quite often and this was from papyrus, just as reassurance to us to a to free suicide. There aren't any warning signs. People are there and one minute and gone the next. And it's a tragedy since an hour since the loss of Lynette. We've talked to a lot of families up and down the country who have lost loved ones and scarred for life, basically. And we're we're aware we will never get over the loss of their son. And these communities, all families are in the same situation. And Linda rightly said of the loss of language, we can't change this and it comes snatches, but our selves, most likely also families who have lost loved ones due determine to just get to open up conversations. And basically, if we can just say, just a few families from all communities going through the heartache of losing loved ones to suicide, it's massive and we're trying to spread the message that everybody is unique. They've got their own values and as a community or even family, we need these members, everybody. It's so important that they get through the tricky situation they are in, hopefully becoming stronger. So they are there when a local family member or friend is going through the same situation. So they're there to offer the same support and we just want people to open up honestly and just start conversations and don't be afraid of picking a sign off and wondering, should of our name or now is more important. You've just opened that conversation all know how old was one when he was 22 and he would have been 23 in February, so it would have been his 25th this year. The significance is on the 14th of February, it would have been his 21st birthday. And instead of just being down in the dumps that we've lost, do we actually want to use his legacy to make a difference in the rural community of how people do think and open up about rural mental health? And let's start having positive conversations. And Linda and me feel we couldn't leave a better legacy for as soon or as families have lost loved ones. If we can change perceptions over respect of the rural community within the industry for my side is that we need to look after people within the industry and basically we've got a duty of care to look after each other and look after ourselves. Quite often we're looking round rather than looking inward and asking the question, Where are you actually today? I, I asked the question previously regarding how it must feel because are there are still unfortunately parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, you know, family members, friends that are still going through things like this that the the struggles that young people, you know, young people, old people are having with mental health and what would you say to two people who have gone through something similar like this? And to see, you know, and to overcome the the profound grief that you feel, how do you how do you deal with the. Well, I think firstly, everybody is different and everyone is going to deal with it differently. I think you have to accept that a lot of people are amazed that we took. But as we've touched on it, the day after it happened, I just said we have to do something. so for the last two years we've been going from one thing to another, raising a lot of awareness and putting in place a lot of things and raising quite a lot of money for other people on our behalf have raised an incredible amount of money. And it's, I think, the focus of the focus that was required to do that was how we coped with it. And I don't know where we would be if we hadn't. I couldn't have just sat at home and curled up in the ball in the corner. I couldn't I couldn't have done it and we wouldn't behave like that. We because we reached out somehow and told our story and it's been incredible how many people have reached out to us and supported us, and that has made everything that we've done worthwhile. But hopefully we've made a difference. But the the the sheer extent, a lot of people said they don't understand how we've managed to do what we've done. We don't see it. We just work on a day to day basis. And Andrew comes up with ideas and I help him put them into practice and but we have left a legacy that is based, but it is the people that we met that we've been asked a number of times, how do we cope with the mileage that we've done on the mental track to relay from John The greatest challenge, and to be honest, the drive in was easy. What we find that the card that was actually on a daily basis talking to people regarding what they were going through. But I'm so pleased those people opened up to us and people said, Was it all worthwhile? And I said, if people had the opportunity to open or start a conversation, every mile was worth doing. We've done 2239 miles trying to visit as many people as possible. And if you ask me to do it again, then it would make a difference to help people or be on the track to, you know, we do it in a heartbeat. I know we've digressed from what you originally asked us was what advice we give other people, but I think it's like I said before, everybody is different and everyone will deal with it differently. But just be aware that generally most people who've got kind hearts and most people will be there to support you, just not to have one or two people. You just will probably find what you get back will help you in loads. I think with London being so young, 22 years old, what kind of challenges do you think young people are facing today with with, you know, in in the struggles that they have with with mental health? I think the pressures put on youngsters these days is enormous. Right from school ages going through exams, being asked to make what they consider to be choices which are going to stay with them for the rest of their lives. And that's something we tried to reinforce with Leonard. There's no reason why you shouldn't change your mind at a later date. We've been reeducating yourselves forever. We keep doing it now. But I think the pressures throughout the systems that we've got from school, you really ought to do this and you really ought to go to university. And you're asking them to make very big decisions a very young age. So the pressures on them are enormous. But you add in to all of that the social media stuff and the technology that's out there today, they see this very unreal world through a small lens on the phone of what a wonderful life everyone else is leading. It's not reality. And yes, a lot of people would probably say, yeah, but we know it's not the anywhere you go these days. You can see friends together and they're all looking at their phones and see. So we'll just turn it off and put it down and put it away for 2 hours and talk to the person who's next to you, because that's reality. And although, yes, in many ways it does a lot of good stuff on social media and let's face it, since I'm on Facebook every single day, so and but I do it for a very specific reason. I don't do it because of what we're doing and how we live our lives or our personal point of view. I'm doing it for a very specific reason and I think if you can just be a bit more selective, but it is quite scary what is out there on social media and the pressures that does on youngsters. And you add that into then the work ethic and the commercial world and all the pressures which are there. But people expect you to do put into work. And these days and as you get, you'll put human on to work. I think you put on it deserve to live and start living it. Take some of that pressure away from me and I know it's a very simplistic way of looking at it, but it's have everybody is, especially if you're younger or baby group will try to be at the right party at the right time with the right people. And to be honest, everybody's individual and people are alive to show the individual characters and. All right, some people might be good at partying, but everybody's got their own unique values and everybody can bring things to the table. You don't always have to say, I was at that party and I was on top form. It's Just as important to say, Well, actually I'm struggling at the moment and I need help. You don't have to splash this fat across social media if you just got a contact with all these people that you know you can call on, you know, those five people, there's going to be someone who will just listen to you. And it's so important to just know who to share good news with. Also to who you know, you can trust to share, but are not in a good place to die. And just like I was saying earlier, get through those bad days so you can be on top form and enjoy the politics when you do go. I think it's important to say that mental health doesn't discriminate by age as well. To say you can suffer for your year old, your managed mental health throughout all generations. Mental health is a fantastic subject really, because easily you can overcomplicate mental health and also locked in obviously to mental health. And also let's break it down and break it down. And if you break it down and break it down to one overriding factor, which is at the base of all everything, whether you're saving and helping your whole sad, it comes down to emotion. Emotion is basically what all mental health positive or negative stems from. But then I sort of look at the scale of mental health from putting on their playing face to hide how you're actually feeling through a day which exalts people to being dying as feeling that you can't even get into bed and the middle place between the two of clusters, that line of belonging. So basically you've got emotion, the line of belonging, and also there's got to be something good for there. So I looked into it, we watch a cat being said on the track to relay was people wanted to be respected for whatever reason and when you think about respect, it's something that we all value and we'd all hate to lose. So if we can respect to cells and get also people to show respect into us, that is the best way to bring in the line of belonging to the middle and start pulling emotion to where it should be. Emotion is going to swing on a daily basis to either the left or right side of the scale, but the trick is knowing how to deal with it. Yeah, and I think that and the other thing is that in a nutshell, really, and this is out there everywhere at the moment about mental health and a lot of people are talking about it, which is brilliant. But if you just put one word in front of that and say positive mental health, it's like it's like your physical health. It's very rare that you're 100% you know, you may not down. Sometimes you feel like we've both been suffering from our physical health over this winter with chest infections and but it's always moving. You're always on a moving scale and sometimes you'll feel really brilliant and then you tick down a bit, then you'll go back up a bit. And it's no different to your mental health. So it's not just about I think the stigma out there is that you talk about mental health and everybody thinks of you suffering from depression. You're in a bad place. It could be a positive thing. Your mental health is always there. It's a constant. It's is it's constantly with you the same as your physical health and is constantly moving. So don't always look at it and think about it as a negative. You might wake up one morning using. Actually, I don't feel as bad as I did yesterday, so grab hold of that and think about it. You just put that positive word in front of it sometimes and just think, No, actually how am I feeling? In the same way as you think about your physical health and don't necessarily think if you talk about mental health to someone, they think, God, you need to doctors, do you need some depressants? You know, it's something that's always going to keep swinging and just be aware of that and then just think about how well, what's different? Why do I feel better today than it was yesterday about just giving myself something to do for me and giving myself a better time that's made me feel better. And maybe it's as simple as that. Give yourself a little bit of time. Is that scenario world class of 2006? Everybody is telling, especially the youngsters, who they should be tomorrow, but it's more important. The only person they should be tomorrow is the same person they are today. You put a little bit stronger and a little bit wiser on how they can cope with that. Actually saying Lynne. And it's just a case, if we can as a society to tune forward every day, then we can get to that supreme position. If we answer your question, what if we just go for attention? Then you answered the question and many more, which is fantastic. And your experience as farmers, you'll understand the pressures that they will experience on a day in, day out basis. You know, I think sometimes there is maybe from an outside perspective, when they think of farming, they'll think of, you know, the countryside, they'll think of the livestock and the greenery. But there's there's both physical and emotional challenges that come with being a farmer. What would you agree? I quite agree. One of the main issues is tiredness and fatigue. Basically, more people in the farming community are trying to do work on a single basis and you get basically doing longer and longer days, possibly even up to seven days a week and your brain over works and basically you can soon find yourself. I lose the thinking, the obvious, and that is where tiredness cuts in even more. And it's a case that there's more potential for an accident on the farm. And unfortunately that can be a spiral downwards. And like we've been saying all the way through the storms to say, I just need to brake on, just need to pick up the phone, talk to someone or have that conversation. And if you can start learning how to share, how you're actually feeling, then hopefully you can just work through things. But I am, as an individual, scared by how much pressure there is on the farming community and I just want changes put into place so the farming community isn't starting to feel so pressurized and it's like a pressure cooker at the moment. There's built up pressure within the industry and someone starts to someone quite quickly needs to start taking that pressure off a community that is feeling so pressurized, I think from an outside perspective as well, from from other industries, possibly people think about the farmers and the vine community and haven't they got this wonderful life? They're lucky enough to live in the rural countryside. They've got livestock to look after all the their growing crops. What they see, what they forget is that it's not a 9 to 5 job. And it's not just looking after the animals or sowing the crops, but you've got all of the paperwork, you've got all of the books, you've people to be an accountant. You've got to be a whiz kid on a computer these days as well as the day to day management of being able to fix things on a farm. Whether you need to be a having knowledge of electrics or plumbing or all these other things, it's not a simple job and it's not 9 to 5. So it's so many other added pressures on. You sort of say from from an outsider's perspective, I would have been in probably like touch ground. I did believe that, you know, farmers, they would have only looked after livestock and then that was what you have to do. You have to be a business operator, you've got to be a vet, you've got you got to be an administrator and a lawyer that there's there's so many things farmers have to be in order to to run a business. And I mean, it can be overwhelming and overpowering to to both a physical and emotional state. But it's so important if you are a Phaedra or doing the farm inspection, the vetch, whoever's coming down that farm drive needs to be aware that there could be people who are struggling, who need to talk, and those people are going down. The farm drives are on the front line and they if they can just pick up a snippet or one concern and just carry on with conversation. But later in the conversation, just reengage with that conversation, they could end up opening up a real can of worms and basically the person going down the drive who's got the potential to save lives and just make people feel a lot happier within themselves. And it comes back to the pressure on everybody, though, as well, because the vets and the field reps and everybody else that goes down the farm drives have got their own deadlines and their own timescales. They've got to it every day. But if they could just take a little bit of extra time to realize they might be the only person that pharmacies in a week outside the people who are on the farm on a daily basis, they are the ones who are most likely to say in their own mind they might get something just different in attitude or something just not quite the same as the last time. They they're coming at it in fresh eyes, just take a little bit of extra time just to engage in conversations. And we've spoken to people recently in that very same scenario who have done exactly that, and they've called in on people and they didn't necessarily need to, but they just thought, actually, I think I'm just going to go and say, Is there anything you need? Can I help you with anything? Do you needing more supplies just to give that person a bit of time because they recognize the need? And I think it's just something that it everybody could do a little bit more of. It will help an awful lot of people. There was a lovely comment that came out of New Zealand and it was lean on a guy, talk to a mate. And I think a farming industry could just take a few minutes to lean on a guy and talk to him. I it could make a massive difference. And anybody who is just entering this, if I could just mate the couple of minutes to just stop and have a conversation, it's it's so massive. And to be honest, what is the beauty of the conversation? When a conversation opens up, you realize it's not just you struggling with those problems or solutions to cuts. Could we move on to landslides? And I think it's what you've done to the both of you. It's it's both inspirational, admirable. And you you know what what you've done to both raise it, the importance of mental health and, you know, especially in young, young farmers and young people from outside farming. And I think I've had kind of a positive conversation with the farming community network and the amount of people that you've helped who do have a voice and who are feeling a certain way are going through a certain situation. Whatever the battle, they were very it feels like it's getting to much the work that you've done to turn something so horrific into a positive is commendable. Beyond words and the amount that you've raised for for charity could could you ever know how much you are at the moment on the much less so it's at about 173 9000. There's probably about 8000. That's Sandy at the moment. So I think that will be in two years come it'll be two years since March since we've been raising money and to it, which is phenomenal. And we're doing it for three charities. So we are not the charity lens. Like isn't a charity which a lot of people assume it is since we've got that name tag on it, which which came about at the beginning of the tractor run but isn't. And yet we're not a charity, but we raise money for Ocean Papyrus, which is a national charity for the prevention of Young Suicide and Food Safety Foundation. And if I could just touch on that just very, very briefly, because something somebody said something to me quite recently about where does that money go? Because if you go onto let me do it myself dot com, it shows you what that earning title is and the comment had come out, but is that money just sat there is a pot of money and the answer is no is it? It will never go down. That will always just roll on to whatever figure is that has been raised and that money goes to those charities every month. Much pulls it out. And if you click on any one of the charities, it gives you the complete, complete breakdown of how much has been raised through the much loved site, how much has been raised offline. So it's perhaps going direct to the charities in their name and how much the site actually takes out for running the site, which is very little. And it shows how much those charities have each had. And so I just wanted to write that somebody raised it as a that money just sat There it is. Those charities have it. They're using it and what you want to do. And so when I first said we've got to do something, I had no idea what we were going to do. And it was that similar brother that found the much loved website and said, I think, I think the sort you want. And then a lot of charity raising events happened for all sorts of people. We'll put your things for us, not just things which we instigated and we did. Yeah the money has just come in when we decided to do the tractor run, it was Andy's idea from the summer before that he wanted to do donor gross terms. And then the thought process evolved over a course of time and ended up what it was. But I knew prior to that that we couldn't just say, Well, it's a tractor run and we're doing it lends name and actually go to I needed a title, something that summed up what we were doing or who we were, and it was actually just another chance conversation with somebody that I had. I said, you know, that's the next thing I've got to think about is what do I call it? And actually it was definitely what he said. He said, What if you're coming down countryside with a tractor, with a beacon? It's brilliant. It'll be done in this landslide. So we named it blends like tractor relay. And the friend I was talking to said, Well, why don't you just have the overall landslide, which is where that came from, where the Facebook page was then set up on Instagram so that it's become the banner of everything that we do. Yeah, it's been brilliant people. The farming community is so generous and people got behind us because it was a real true story. People could emphasize with the heartbreak that we'd gone through, which was brilliant. And but more importantly, it's carrying that message to the we don't want other people to go through what we have. And if conversations open up, then, you know, people can look after themselves and each other. But we friends send the we have everybody else that we just want everybody to engage with this. And I can't believe how few people have engaged, especially young farmers, colleges and universities. It's just hit a nerve. And bless them. Everybody seems to be running alongside us, which means so much to them. And in my own a on a weekly basis, really getting people contacted to say, Natalie, we want to do such and such. I want to do this for you. And you just not for me. So it was definitely we were absolutely shell shocked because someone wanted to do something day and then Suffolk and they went out and they cut your liver and they said, Look, we were surprised because we'd just been on a skiing trip and on the slopes, all we saw was men's light on the ski jackets and we put two and two together and our producer decided they weren't going to support us. So on that ski trip, they put men's light on. The ski jackets, which was on the slopes were also seen by some when I was across the country, was doing something I was in dependently. So the chain of events and having it all pulling together is incredible. It was sad. We lost SLED no doubt worked hard all my life to leave a legacy in his name, but actually what is happening now is a Phenix, because each of the ashes, something terrific is happening. And like I said, it would have been his 25th birthday on the 14th of February. And if we can use that day to reach out to people that they need to look after themselves and each other or a legacy, we're leaving for him and I can't say more. I'm one of the things he would in a tremendous sense of humor. And he was a machine because through and through, I love these tractors. I'm really not a tractor person. And the fact that his dad drove a truck can tell us that he would just love. And he also knew how much I struggled with social media, even trying to do my own page for my business and having to call on him to do it all the time. The fact that I'm now having to do Facebook live on a daily basis, but we were doing this to him. He would be smiling well, so people keep asking us, So if you keep doing it, won't you keep doing it? And it's a passion. And like I was saying to him, yeah. So like I was saying to you earlier, before the loss of land, I would never believe that I could talk to people or sort of engage with people on the level I know. But sheer passion that I wanted to change things and make a difference for the farming community, really. We've both been pushed so far out of our comfort zones, which again would make and smile. What has what what do you think lends line? What does that mean for you? What does it stand for? The people who follow? Yeah, it's everything. It's his memory. It's like just sort of in his smile. His caring for people. It's is something really, if I could put it in my words, The day we lost planet, my life stopped. He meant everything to me and then slowly given me life back. And I just feel like I said earlier, that is the Phenix. And I'm not afraid of a lot of things I've done in my life. But this on pride of what Linda and myself have achieved. We've we've discussed the the the truck to relay run. So from John to John O'Groats to London and no illustrate like most people do Miles, we decided to do it nearly two and a half thousand thousand. The the level of support that came from that. And I think the importance of reaching so many people in so many different communities that was inspirational on on a completely different level. And and you said that if you had come to say, you know, the importance of talking, that was something that was really powerful for months and somebody discussed that with yourself, that they they'd experienced something similar, but it was really reassuring and really helpful to to open, to discuss and to talk about how you're feeling. And yeah, yeah, people did come out. I think that's one of the things I don't think we necessarily had anticipated. A lot of people said they were worried about the amount of miles we were going to do and actually we both found the driving easy. It was we were early. Everywhere we went, it was we take kids, there we go. But if we were stopping two, three or sometimes as many as four different places in a day and you've got a different group of people, we we never knew how many people were going to be there, and sometimes it was only a handful and May might have just been the auction staff plus a few others. Sometimes it was a whole crowd, lots and lots of people. We never really knew what we were going to be driving into, but the conversations that we had with people who came specifically because they wanted to engage with us was heartwarming that they felt they could. But it was also in some ways the most draining the heart of the whole journey because, you know, it is you're always having the same conversation from your point of view, several times over, over a whole month, really, since I wouldn't have changed anything and I wouldn't have not wanted to have or wouldn't take a single one of those conversations, the equation because it meant a lot to those people. And actually when you engage in those conversations, it gives you something as well. So, you know, there is definitely a positive to come out of it, but that those were the tiring days when there were a lot of heart felt. But to be honest, it didn't matter if there was a crater, two or 300 or a grade of ten. People know the most important factor was we all identified and the one person in the organization we were sent to the use and someone who was prepared to listen. Do you think are you quite proud in the way that a lot more young people today, especially young farmers, are wanting to engage discuss and open up about a the feelings and be just mental health as we a topic we were amazed early on that the youngsters that came to see us here were incredible because it we wouldn't quite we would have been wouldn't have been surprised if there was a group of people who felt we go and see lens parents because they may never have met us in the rock, they had never met us, but they felt strongly about a hidden that they could, and they were truly amazing how open they were. And I think that was sort of age group really teens to mid 2030s, that sort of group of people that we really wanted to make sure we could engage with and get them all talking. And hopefully we've helped locally. But we were, we were bowled over by there of openness and wanting to talk. So the fact that we just want to reinforce that and say, look, it is so important and if you can get it, whether in young farmers or any of the group where you have people who will engage in those conversations at all levels and all ages and hopefully that they can take that home and try and engage their parents and possibly grandparents in the same kind of conversations. Because as we mentioned earlier, this isn't an age thing. This is hits every generation. And if you've just got people who are prepared to talk down the age group, not the age groups, then if we help, that is what the beauty is now. Wherever we go in the country, there will be people to greet us, especially young farmers or agricultural students or Linda and myself feel like family and is such an uplifting factor. But what I'm so proud about, we got asked if we would put on a main event at Harper Adams and we said, of course But what we didn't realize at the time, it was put on by four of your student ambassadors for the benefit of the first year. Well, when you get that level of mentoring for the benefit of others, it's incredible that was a special day to know. The eight came from the fourth year specifically, and some of them they obviously they knew landed and they left a couple of years specifically wanted us. Yeah it was a good day and they the first truck to as well to be taken into the west Westminster in Westminster is that quite well it's still unbelievable nowadays. We didn't know if we had picked off more than we could achieved actually getting a tractor into London. But then again it's always contacts and who you mate and we had support from a local MP plus Marks Spencer in Westminster and it all came about with my in my early days and a wing and a prayer coming together. We even had to get permission to do that from the Deputy Speaker in the House of Parliament. And it was just surreal that it actually happened, but it was quite comical how we could get into London and go in, pass Region to save Trafalgar Square. Piccadilly Circus are great and free on the tractor is not for the faint time, but having that, it was quite funny because we did that stretch of the tractor journey again. We did that one together, so I was at the factory, so I've got a certain level of a directing way to go. And then in a contact photograph I've got other phone. So like all those days I've had type of I take photographs, one's own phone to give him directions. But actually the speed limit in London is 20 miles an hour. And so actually the driving and direction, that was one of the easiest bits to do. And people said to us, Well, surely everyone was just amazed. You've got a tractor in London. I and everybody is safe. But nobody looked at it. No one even really denied we the arranged that we were going to get in earlier. We were going to park outside the farmers, the cells. They were very accommodating and welcomed us and they said, Lively, you won't get a parking ticket. And while we were still outside talking to them, two mounted police rode past. They never even looked. They didn't even think, is this a fact? They just got rid of all of the horses. So it was it was bizarre. It was a very surreal day keeping out of the Internet when you were given directions, what was it like to go? Right. Yeah. Anyway, we got back. It was fine, but it was yeah, it was real very surreal. But they all came together. Regarding the worst moment of the tractor relay, we got to Norwich and got the idea then to find the way it works. Thank God it was that. It was really on my knees. Say, maybe for you. But there were roadworks and I'd done single carriage and you were boxed in to that single carriage. There was nowhere to go. I went just over eight miles with nothing being able to overtake, and I was actually leaning forward in the truck just thinking, Go faster, go faster. But we got away with every been rush hour. We would have made it. But yeah, I did. Yeah, we Didn't see that one coming and we didn't. Yeah. Anyway, and to be recognized by and both the Prime Minister with the points of light a word NFU president minute by minute. But as you consider I a very close friend who's been very supportive, how's it been, you know, to, to also receive the national attention for such a a truly heartbreaking that must have uplifted you the more it monitored your initial reactions. So my initial reaction certainly one of total disbelief because we didn't see any of the awards coming. So they just came out of the blue and not decide which because we don't really feel we've done anything. We've just had these ideas. A lot of just had these ideas and we just thought, what is asked for questions and said, we can do it. It's just roll from there. So yeah, and these awards are just for us because so many people felt, yeah, literally it's a team effort. awards don't really sit easy because like you said, we don't do, we don't feel we've done as much as we should. But the beauty is with awards, it gives you another stepping stone to carry on with your work. And if I could just mention Minette Batters, what an incredible lady she is. And from an initial meeting Minette listen to was a it's a real skill to listen to someone and take it forward. All you felt from day one we were sending a ripple from the industry and I feel that the initial meeting with us just put us in this feedback and that's why we've got the incredible wave of support that we have. Man Incredible lady, as there are so many others out there who felt this all the way. Yes. Incredible. We're reaching the 10th year of mind your head. Could you tell us a bit about what plans you've got in store? Well, it wouldn't be as if we were not to some things we're we it's so when I saw it and I I more and aware the the farming community is under a lot of pressure everybody's spinning plates and it is hard to keep your head above water literally everybody has been subjected to bovine TB through to flooding, to crop failure, to financial hardship. And because of those issues, I just felt there was a need as an industry to get together and basically have honest conversations and open up. And we're all failing. Because if a conversation does start, you realize you're not alone. But also, like I was saying earlier, I feel we've in the industry for a solid fact is I need you to be more respect of the farming community. So all these thoughts regarding what we've classed as a big farm mean to you, right? Which is set to run alongside mines, your hedge, it. We want you to ask farmers to come together to share a TV break and show pictures these on social media. But also if Linda and me could get into the city of London with the help of the farmers Club, they've bent over backwards to accommodate his on Valentine's Day, the 14th of February, which signified Clay, as would have been Leonard's 25th birthday. We want to go and ask the city for respect for the farming community. So we wanted to properly represent farmers from Scotland, Wales and England. So we're very proud to say that we've got a RSPB all represented Scottish farmers, we've got yellow wellies and FC and representing English farmers. And regarding Welsh on this, we are lucky enough to have the PJ there. So we've got an age, we've contracted the Lord-Lieutenant who have been superb and helping us to get influential people into London to the Farmers Club. We just want to try and raise the level of respect from everybody in the everybody who has food on their tables from British farmers who are passionate to get quality food on the plate. And also we want to just say why shouldn't we have respect where people are doing colossal? I was bending over backwards to go that extra mile. They are passionate people. They need looking after that. That's what the big farming table UK Asia might really do. I can just Yeah, in fact. So on a more practical level for everybody else who's heard about it or hopefully seen the posters or seen it in some of their and I know you very kindly put it on online. What we did was engage initially with the Livestock Auctioneers Association, who very kindly engaged the markets first for the tractor run, and they sent out a press release in the unopposed to their members asking and one of the reasons why we spread it over the whole week is so that livestock markets can engage with this big farming tea for whatever it is that they actually have a market going and within their livestock markets. So that know is not restricted to a day that week. It's as any point and we've lost the National Federation of Young Farmers Clubs to put it out to all young farmers. And we know that some of those have certainly taken this up and intend to have a activate during that week when they have their club meetings. So we're asking people just to to recognize that it's mind to head. We recognize it's a time to get together, to have a cup of tea, to have a chat and spread message of wellbeing within our industry and how the support is there for each other. But on the bigger picture, on why we want to be in London is to increase that, as Andy said, to try and increase the respect for our industry from outside. And we've done it from Minded Week as awful reasons it was the right time for us to do it. But also it is the foreign foundations Safety Foundation is celebrating ten years this year, so any funds raised will go to that. I think this sums it up really. So it's sort of multiple levels, but on a grassroots level is let's get together and talk. I think it's very important at time, despite the very positive work that is being done to raise awareness of mental health with the work that you both are doing, there's still a stigma around mental health. What did you write about? So this is one of the we would like to help break down, which is why we live in the area, why we've looked for it and it came from A&E, really why we put that positive mental health. Mental health is something we all have, no matter how good our life is. So you may be at the top of your game. It's through mental health. Mental health is not a negative. It's it's a moveable feast. And it will always remain for all of us. And I think that's when you see on the news, you know, I'm suffering from mental health and it's always the negative and we need to start taking that stigma away from it that it's it's it's as I said earlier, it's just like your physical health is always going to be a moving is never going to be it's okay to not be is okay to be. It's okay to be okay, but also to recognize, you know, yesterday you may have felt a little bit worse than you are today. You may have felt better yesterday. Why did you feel a bit better yesterday? What can I do to make it better? It's not it shouldn't have that mental health stigma that. God, that's bad. That's that's not good because mental health can be a plus as well. We were all Brian Crowe. We were all brutal. We've grown men. Don't cry. And basically it's antiquated. Since the loss of Leonard, I've seen a lot of grown men cry. And to be honest, I've been pleased to see that emotion. You only have to look at people who have suffered losing stuff to TV. And there are videos showing grown men in tears at the moment. But I learned that emotion I we shouldn't be. And basically I'm like in that emotion I and people see that emotion can then get involved and show support. Like I was saying earlier, the most dangerous thing is we all proclaim fighting, shown all behind a smiley face and say, Yeah, we're okay. That is when it gets dangerous and people can't read our playing face. But if you can show how you're actually feeling and reach out that then you're heading towards a safer place. Absolutely. if, you know, if there was one bit of one bit of advice that you could give, like was like I said earlier, that there may be somebody who is feeling in a very dark place, who doesn't know where to turn to, and they might feel that they don't have a voice and that they're not being listened to. What would you say to them if? They say if they are struggling with the mental health, open up to somebody, find someone, whether you think it's a, a close friend, even if it's an associate that you think, it came across to me and it made me on the to run. There were, there were some days when people would approach me and I felt not and they didn't necessarily approach me in the right way. And they were people that I therefore didn't want to open up to and people may feel a lot like they don't want to lose their doctor or they don't want to go to a charity and see a counselor or whatever. You may get that feeling that they're would you just occasionally a happened. I just and you close down if you feel you're not with the right person. You just closed down. There were other people who just came up and chatted and I could have talked to them for weeks and I, I remember those people and I think everyone, if you stop and you think back in life, you might have just had a brief encounter with someone or it might've been an old friend you've lost touch with who you could just feel. I feel I could talk to that person because they listened, try and make contact. Try and find the strength to make contact with somebody and just open the conversation and see where that conversation leads. And you just might find you found somebody who can help. There was a local farmer who was not in a good place struggling and he said to his wife, I'm going to phone Andy. And she said to him, No, you can't phone. And he's going off on his plate. He's just he's going through enough. You can't find anything. And he said, No, I'm gonna find Andy. And he did find and he had a conversation. And his wife said the following day, I don't know what you said, but he's a different person today. So what I'm trying to say, if you feel it's the right person to contact, don't hesitate. Just contact them. And basically, if you feel you can't speak to someone, you know, sometimes it's easier to talk to someone you don't know. The most important thing is you have a conversation and they're all in. For I'd like to go on with is everybody has got a value and it's more important you talk to someone because no one wants to find out that you have gone to that dark place. And it's so important for you to celebrate birthdays, anniversaries and be part of friends and community in future years because everybody is needed. But if you know people listening to this so they do need somebody and that they don't they can't think of that person who they can, then, you know, if you can put within this, it's there is a scene there are already be I in Scotland there is the CBI in Wales is a deejay in a lot of these is high risk for the protection of young suicide a national charity and it doesn't have to be the person who is feeling in a particularly dark place that reaches out to them. Someone who is worried about somebody can equally reach out to them. And so that there are a lot of incredible charities out there who can help can and I just say one important out listening is because quite often there should be two parts to a conversation talking and listening, but quite often it's talking and waiting to talk. And it's so important when someone's talking, you letting them finish a conversation, because that is where you might just find that important detail that you can pick up on. You don't want to walk into a room and say, What's wrong with you then? But if you gently lead in to conversation talking about the weather, what's been happening, and just feel how the conversations go in and facial expression is fantastic and just find how that person is seeming and just ask the question. You don't coaching yourself today, are you okay? And if you're not convinced without them, just ask that question again. Because if they don't tell you correctly the first time, it's very hard for them to say a second time. And what always frustrates me, if you ever go to a doctor's surgery and see someone you know and ask who they are, they always say, I'm fine. Can we change this Regarding positive mental health? And let's be honest and open. And there's just I mean, just those few charities that I mentioned, you know, there are a lot of there's a lot of local ones as well. So, yeah, ask the question for help if you can, but there are lots of very good charities out there to help with this. What's significant in the last 12 months with a lot of the charities, there's a lot more people coming forward for the freedom and it's men and all of those charities that they see. They are so pleased to see. The men are no family and in their voices and reaching out for help, which is so significant and so important, so very. Finally, I know it's not what this is not the reason why you do it, but I personally just wanted to to thank you for all the work that you've done. There'll be people that you love, not you'll never know, you'll never meet, but you'll have helped them in such a profound and meaningful way from acting upon the words and deeds that you've put into action from meeting you today. It's very visible that you love each other with all your heart. You do anything for each other and you'll keep fighting for mental health. And I know that with a ray of light that, Leonard would be so proud of what you're doing and what you continue to do. So I'm willing to thank you so much your time. And can I just say thank you to the homeless guardian because you have looked after us and supported that search, however, not by saying and basically if we can keep in the message there and it doesn't matter if we don't know, someone can make a difference in their life. It's massive telling me so I'd just like to thank you. Thank you to Farmers Guardian. Thanks to Wanda and Linda for their powerful but heart wrenching account of loss and how they've overcome their own pain. To help promote positive conversations about mental health in the farming community is a truly outstanding achievement, and our hearts are always with them. They will have helped more people in ways than they'll ever know. The truly remarkable thing about helping others is you may never know or meet the people you've helped save one life and save the entire world. Thanks for listening. Have a great week and let's catch up next time. Goodbye.