In this week’s Farmers Guardian podcast, Emily Ashworth sits down with Louisa Clutterbuck at Eat Wild – formerly British Game Assurance – to speak about how game meat, from pheasant to venison, is a sustainable option. Through Eat Wild, Louise is looking to bring game meat into the mainstream and educate people on why they should be eating more of it.
In this week’s Farmers Guardian podcast, Emily Ashworth sits down with Louisa Clutterbuck at Eat Wild – formerly British Game Assurance – to speak about how game meat, from pheasant to venison, is a sustainable option. Through Eat Wild, Louise is looking to bring game meat into the mainstream and educate people on why they should be eating more of it.
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And for any football fans out there who frequent the Emirates Stadium, you might want to take a close look at the menu next time you there, because through sheer hard work and passion, Louisa and the team have made sure game is on. Menus everywhere across the country. I think it would be nice because I don't think I know either. What is your actual background and how did you know this interest in the sector kind of come about? Yeah. So I grew up on a smallholding literally in the middle of nowhere. My parents driveway is like a mile long track. We drive their farm yards, get down into our house, and we had a few. My parents are very much hobby farmers. My dad's worked full time, so we had a ginormous vege patch and horses and things like that growing up. And so was very rural, very, very into farming. But I used to go out dairy farm farming with my grandfather. So I grew up in the countryside very sadly was, you know, my my cousins had a huge dairy herds and they had to settle that and now they do beef. But yeah, so my friend was actually recruiting for the role and she just put up on Facebook saying, I'm looking for a very niche role. Must be passionate about the countryside. But I have very strong organizational skills. And that's kind of how I joined the BGA originally. Okay. Yeah. So it's kind of meant to be then. So you obviously do have a connection. How long ago was that now, actually, because I know that, you know, we've actually spoken for a very good number of years now. Yeah. 2018. Okay. Yeah. August 2018, I joined and obviously we were the BGA, and that was formed in 20. Yeah, May 2018 and I joined in the August. But yeah, it was great because I hated London and you know, it was there because that's where if you want sun, any money kind of need to be. But so it was lovely to see something that was so related to the countryside. Yeah, just in terms of, you know, in case anybody kind of doesn't know and obviously, you know, the organization is now known as Eat Wild, but like you've mentioned, it hasn't always been. And that and actually it's quite nice because it's all encompassing that, isn't it? But do you want to just tell people a little bit about the organization and maybe, you know, kind of journey over the years because we will come to this in the conversation. But what you actually do and what you promote and it's becoming a lot more talked about and then a larger part of the conversation when it comes to food. So you have to tell people what it's all about and it's kind of a journey up until this point. So originally we started is British Game Alliance, and that was under Tom Adams as the M.D. And it was set up because there was an oversupply of game and also there was no way and there wasn't an insurance scheme that was with Red Tractor. So if we wanted to open up new markets, the game, we really needed to have that assurance scheme in place. And then we also need to prove to government that we're self-regulating and sheets are best practice and benefiting the environment. And so the way to do that was through the assurance scheme. So we were British Game Alliance and then Tom left and Liam Stokes took over and he wants to rebrand the British game Assurance because it's Red Tractor Farm Assurance. So he said why are we not just British gameshow be what it says on the tin. So poor label he joined it. It was right at the start of COVID so we had t lockdown is followed by of the t bird bird flu years and so our membership took quite a heavy hit. Yeah. And so so two years ago a coalition was formed called H Sustain assured that sorry to say no assurance yet and aims and saying as a coalition of benign cheating organizations and and we decided that it'd be best if the assurance transferred over to the say so that the nine cheating organizations could have ownership of the scheme. Because when we were originally set up it was always agreed that the scheme would be run by the community. And the best way to do that is to have the organizations that that represent those people. And so after a year of negotiation and getting all sorted, as you can imagine with nine organizations, it's a lot that goes into that. We finally the transfer happened in November and so it's now rebranded as M to Sustain Assurance, Game Assurance, and we have now rebranded as Eat Wild's the Development Board for Wild Meats. I always headed up, Eat Wales and just the background on kind of how Eat Wild started. That was our consumer campaign of BGA and we did direct to consumer marketing, trying to get them to try again for the first time. And that was launched and it was November 2018. So it's been running for a really long time and actually has got, you know, people really recognize it. So it was very important to me that we didn't lose eat whilst because it's yeah, it's gone leaps and bounds since it was launched. It's really interesting actually, isn't it the case and I find the whole consumer connection and how we create, you know, a kind of bridge between what we do in this sector as a whole to that to the people who are receiving that product and doing what they want with it, you know, market in and how we market ourselves and our messages and you know the benefits that we kind of provide for society, it's got to be so key. It's got to be so kind of direct and eat wild kind of does that, doesn't it? Because it kind of encompasses what I guess and a lot of the general public are after, which is sustainability kind of that story from and farm to fork. So, you know, marketing is a huge part of what we need to be doing. Yeah, it's quite interesting because I think there's definitely a sector of our communities don't really understand the need for the consumer, the consumer marketing, because and obviously the commercial stuff we do is so important. But if we've got it on by young pups, they are all they are now doing wildly on the menu. That's it. If that person has never heard of a pheasant, why on earth would they then pick it off the menu? So it really ties in together. And it's so important that the consumer campaign continues alongside all the commercial. Yeah, definitely. And I think as well this is the thing is that sometimes we get so ingrained in what we're doing, you actually forget that and not everybody knows what you kind of know. Doing your day to day job. Yeah, yeah. Last year was a huge wake up call because it was the first time I was doing shows just under the Eat Wall banner and it was fascinating. I had people being like, What is the venison? And you know, they were like, How do you eat a game? Like eat netball or hockey or rugby, whatever was around, What are you talking about? And then I was like, my God, this is why I need to call it Wild Me, because it just makes that separation from the traditional farms meets the sideline. But did you see the The Australian Lambert's marketing video they've just put out this Monday? Yeah. It's one where the riding around isn't it. Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely love, you know that land brings everyone together. I thought it was amazing and I'm like, how can I harness that sort of. But it also shows the very different type of different demographics that we need to trying to see. Because, you know, the older generation when they've had game, they're like, no, it's really strong in flavor. And I'm like, no, no, you know, people don't hang out anymore and explain about the supply chain. And then you get, you know, they're the hard ones to persuade. Is the one that really overcooked bad Yeah you know very strong game and if you explain to them you just need them to taste that and then they're back on board. Yeah it's very interesting. I actually slightly want to get into kind of the stats and demographics and things like that, you know, the people that you are targeting. But first, I just we want to talk about, you know, how how are you actually delivering that message in terms of, you know, showing people that game is actually, you know, it can be a part of how we manage the environment sustainably. And actually, you know, like you just touched on, it's the meat that kind of come under that umbrella. A really diverse and they can, you know, feel kind of talking to a family, for example they can fit into, you know, the family meals that you you want to create and things like that. How are you delivering that message? So we do feed festivals, music festivals, and I try and avoid of country shows now and just go and yeah, I'm doing the hospitality show up in the Lake District the first time and we honestly took a food truck into the center of Newcastle and so yeah, we did wrestle a few years ago and we chose in Brazil because it has the highest population of beak of the vegetarians and we were like, okay, we did tableside load for that as well. My younger sister was a vegetarian and I got her eating wild meat and now she's back to eating all wheat again. So I think really nice way to like get people back into it. Yeah. So yeah. And then in a in a Newcastle we handed out a 1200 portions of game samples and I would say like 85% of the people that we had we were tasting, it had never tried it before. And so that's the way that we do also direct to consumer work and we, we showcase it and very new ways, just like you would have like a a a chicken pasta bake, have a pheasant pass debate. But as far protein, we did like pulled venison and loaded fries and pulled pheasant loaded fries and ate pheasant, John's pheasant burgers and a whole array of stuff. And because it's just like, you know, they see other meats like that, they're like, okay, this isn't intimidating or scary. I'm going to give it a go. Yeah, we are talking about this way too close to lunch time. My goodness. Yeah. And so let's talk about then. I also love that your sister could potentially just make your whole campaign for you. This is what could happen. And can we talk about stats and in terms of kind of maybe year on year growth in either consumption or members or, you know, how do you measure success as well? What does that mean to you? Yes, we don't have membership anymore. We are completely funded through donations, but grief. So we we do, Kantar reports through retail. So three years ago, we've seen a 9.6 increase in game sales that has that did drop down the year after to 7.6. But that's because supermarket markets can get the large free supply. And then this year, I haven't done the Kantar Report yet, but anecdotally from I've had from about six sort of game suppliers, they've all seen a huge increase in the sales of game. So people are definitely interested in it and they are I think are, you know, a lot of the stigma is going that it's a michelin. You know, they say I'm not a chef and I'm like, I could never get that. That is definitely dissipating. Do you ever do anything in terms of or do you want to in terms of education? Because obviously a lot of these conversations center around that. And, you know, even if it just comes to looking at how we get farming into schools, into education, we need to get into primary schools and talk to the generation who, you know, end up being the target audience. Is that something that you interested in? Yes, very recently, Leeanne, our culinary director, who only works four days a month, us, but he just got 30 nurseries and putting wild meat on the menu. Wow. It's really, really exciting. But we do a lot of education in schools. We have an amazing so because I'm the only full time employee and we have a team of ambassadors who are around the country and one Alex, he's up in Cheshire. He been amazing. He is an ex gamekeeper, but he's also a lecturer at the college and he's been going round all his local schools and colleges. he's also he's going to Yorkshire. He's been traveling around a lot, but he got teaching children because he's a lecturer. He knows how to speak to Mildred. So yeah, he's done so much. We also did the Children's Countryside Day in Northumberland, so I'm Northumberland. Yeah, that's how I know Cumbria. I know I always get Cumbria. No I'm sorry. Yeah. And that we did 4000 schools children. Wow. And to see if they're being butchered and then we would serve it to them and it was amazing. We just stuck with within test because I think it's, you know, I love the education side of things. What was their reaction to that with the open to it? Were they asking those questions? Yeah, I'm really excited by it. That was two little girls very upset by the butchery. Yeah, one of them wouldn't try the meat, but one of them was like, Absolutely. And I came up with a little catchphrase of, like, eat the deer, save the tree. Okay. You know, very basic. But they loved it. So because, you know, the deer population at the moment is so out of control. And we've got it's about over a million deer or something, and it's the highest it's ever been since Northern Times. So yeah, but and if you explain that to them, you know, we even had the teachers who a vegetarian being like, I, I thought eating it then, you know so and was I talk about pigeon I always tell the big like what you do you realize we have to eat you have to shoot the pigeons for your crops to grow. Yeah. So it's very interesting to see you see people actually stop and think, my God. And I had never thought about that. But and it's just because they don't know. And, you know, it's all about race. And actually, you know, the point is and again, this comes back to the conversation that we have in terms of farming and just engaging with farmers or the or just those who produce food in any capacity. You know, we're not asking everybody to kind of change what they're doing overnight, but just to have those conversations and just to get a bit of an insight because then, you know, that's the only way that we can have these wider conversations and discussions really, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. And that kind of leads in nicely, maybe because the other side of this I wanted to touch on and you know, you talk about how you were talking to these children about the hows and whys and, you know, this benefits, this and that sort of thing. Careers, careers in the game sector can, you know, offer some really like fulfilling jobs. And but also it's not just about food, it's about the environment. So again, that's another whole set of careers that opens up to a whole lot of people who maybe were never connected to this sector before. Yeah, I mean, I think it's the tea threads of rural land in the UK are managed by game producers, so it's massive and the conservation element and I think, you know, that's actually very interesting. A lot of gamekeepers are now putting themselves game conservationists or game rangers and just changing their titles a little bit because actually it the gamekeeper doesn't fully reflect all the work they're doing. Yeah, there are huge about jobs actually on a separate thing to you are they set up women who work in fields and it's really blown my mind how many women there are still working within it and also what varied roles there are, you know, from estate manager to gun cheats and instructor. There's just yeah, a lot. And so for me, yeah, we've got a really fantastic lady here to say good luck for us. She's called Nicole Moore and, and her social media handles and she can go with an afro and she's all about, Yeah, see, I thought you might recognize the social media, you know, get people in from outside of our sector. You know, it's we know that we need more people coming in and we need fresh talent. So actually, it's a it's a great way to attract people on that environmental conservation sustainability kind of line. Yeah. And I'm also very proud of the team that we have. It wild is that we're very diverse and we all quite young, so we kind of do have our fingers on the pulse little bit and yeah, we're not what when people think about you saying we're not the stereotypical people that you would think about because I do think we need to diversify. She's saying a lot more. I know some people are like, you know, it's just being politically correct. But no, it's really important. The more people we can get involved in it now, I think the more that people understand it and can take part of it, the less resistance we're going to face. So if there is one thing then that you would like, you know, say you could tell anybody who who didn't have any idea about what you're doing or the kind of the sector that you're working in. And you could tell them one thing just to kind of maybe and pique their interest, what would it be? well, I always start with the foods, but maybe I should. I always just, like, lead by stomachs. Yeah. Yeah. But it is, you know, the food is the one thing that we all need, right? No one can survive without food. And so it's a really easy place to start as a common interest. And then, you know, when you talk to them about, okay, this peasant has has lived out in the wild for eczema, weeks, verses that from chicken. Obviously I do not want to hate on other means, but you know, that's just a really easy win. And even the idea is such an easy story. They're out in the wild, they get shocked, don't even know it's coming and but it needs to be done. So, yeah, food. I think food is the easiest way to to to convert people at once or so. As soon as they're hooked on eating it, then they're going to want to know where it's come from and how how they can get involved with that. Yeah, Yes, it's almost working backwards, isn't it? And kind of something that we all have come and go find some that we all have a bit of common ground with and kind of work backwards here and. Okay. Well, in terms of future plans then for Eat Wild, what does the future look like for you? How is there any new things that you can talk about that you do in or where do you hope to get with it? Well, I when I took over in April, I said that I wanted to make game a staple of every household in the UK and people told me I'm completely bonkers and I'll never, you know, I'll never achieve it actually. But we can't achieve it because we don't have enough peasants or, you know, to do that. Yeah, very excitingly, we just obviously tops nurseries with the nursery. It's a fantastic. And we, we got three Delaware north, we had a game being served at several football matches during November and we went to that was just in the hospitality areas. They served venison, but we want to try and get them doing it and you know, in the stands and I'm not really last talk about it, but the six nations, there will definitely be some wild meat pies being served there. Yeah, that's amazing. So, yeah, I really have to be. Yeah, I have to be quite clear with these get I wasn't fully signed off on the comms. Yeah. So I can't go into details about that one, but it's just by having a football matches, rugby matches, you know, people are just seeing more and more and getting used to it. I really, really want to do a big music festival this year. That's from a consumer side in a car fest was amazing. I'm going to do it again. Just because it was so many people had never tried it before and really wanted the game at Glastonbury. But I think that I was just about to say, Right, okay, yeah, but we're very like this quiet of our states actually do have festivals and you know, they're like, well, you could always have a start with us. But yeah, it's trying to find a crowd that are interested in music but also food, because there's also an element of people that don't eat for like three days and they go to festivals. So yeah, about well it's, yeah, it's not playing basketball again with my main focus really. I'm going to do No Country shows and it's all going to be targeting urban millennials. Gen Z Yeah, take to articulate because it's really going, yeah, I mean I did watch one of the tock through the day. I think you were making a comment, but what kind of pie it was. But it was a pie and you know, the ease of it, I think sometimes people are just quite scared to try these things that they don't know what to do with it. But actually, you know, you take all that waste cooking a pie, it's simple. It's probably something that you can do. So I got told off not pressing pastry all the way around it. So I was like, That's not a proper pie. 0.7, you know, a pie for me, just fast paced. You go, you win some really some. But that is really a point. That's why we try and say, you know, don't do other than ready try and deep breaths and legs separately And that's the stuff. And I do want to finish on, you know, kind of your favorite recipes or your favorite game. Maple Just before we do that, I also want to just touch on the fact that there is, you know, nutritional value to these meats that you are talking about. And and people don't realize either that that the density of nutrients in these animals that kind of live are much more natural if, you know, in very basic terms, much more natural like, you know, that's a huge selling point. Yeah. So, you know, I think it's six or seven grams per 100 grams. Pheasant has high protein than chicken. Yeah, Yeah, exactly. There's an entire sector of people that do not care where their meat comes from. All they want to know is the protein content and the macros. And that is a huge selling point for us because, you know, it's a pheasant is leaner, it's much lower in fat. I mean, venison as well as lower cholesterol and then fat than beef. So if you've been told by a doctor you can't have any beef, I'm like, okay, but you don't need to be deprived of red meat. You can just eat it. So yeah, I'm actually that's one of the things my aim is to try and get the British Nutritional Foundation to be pushing venison a lot more because there's no reason they shouldn't be. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it, That kind of link between, you know, you talk about proteins and the link between our industry and the fitness industry is actually a lot closer than you would first imagine. So yeah, huge market potential. And okay to end on what is your favorite meal and and recipe. Can you share that with us If you can pick one. I say my favorite meal I like to have out is venison tartare but to cook at home. my on my favorite one at home is a pheasant Kiev. It's an especially if you did wild garlic just it's dreamy yeah and it's so easy and but the butter keeps the stops the breath getting dry and just have it with the mustard matches and chips and it's it's so simple, but it's absolutely delicious. Sounds good to me. I actually, like I did a pheasant a pheasant carbonara last night and that was pretty delicious. Yeah. Amazing. So anyone who wants to, you know, check out what you're doing and want to just tell people where they can find more information and all the recipes for these things that we've talked about this lunchtime and yeah, so all our recipes can be found on DVD. We don't eat wild Duck where let's eat what's on Instagram? Tik tok as much as actually just the eat well then picked up. And if you want to support this, we have like silly T-shirts that you can buy and you can donate and that set back British game dot dot UK. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Louisa is certainly on a mission and asked for those recipes. It would be great to know actually if anyone listening tries them. After this podcast from The Guardian. It will be back again next week with another episode. But for me it's a goodbye until next time. Thank you very much for listening.